The subsequent Mirror episodes would have been better if the Terran Empire had never fell.
There, I said it.
Time To Come Out...
- Thread starter Bry_Sinclair
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The subsequent Mirror episodes would have been better if the Terran Empire had never fell.
There, I said it.
Agreed. Either that, or if Mirror Spock's efforts had led to the overthrow of the Empire - in favor of some sort of totalitarian or "communist" nightmare, that was still more or less a dark mirror of the 24th century Federation we're familiar with.
I recently bought the movies on Blu Ray and have been having a rewatch, and Voyage Home bored me... It wasn't bad and would have made a good whimsical episode, it was just a waste of a big screen adventure.
At least The Final Frontier had tension to keep me gripped.
At least The Final Frontier had tension to keep me gripped.
A
Amaris
Guest
Boo! *throws tomato*
I thought it was so/so. The best thing about it was the recreation of the TOS era Defiant.
True, though I could have done without them entirely.
That could have been interesting, but still, mirror universes, evil twins, stuff like that never really interested me when Star Trek did it.
IAMD1&2 are the best of the M,M sequels, and near the top of ENT episodes, but they're nowhere nearly as good as M,M. One of the things that dragged them down was all of the continuity porn: inventing the agony booth, let's squeeze in a Gorn (but not bother to make it an actual Gorn), etc. By cutting out all of the cruft and focusing only on the actual story, they could have made a very exciting one-parter instead.
That said, "Mirror, Mirror" should have really been a one-off, in which events were precipitated by a momentary alignment of two otherwise divergent universes. There's no intrinsic reason why the pasts and futures of the two universes should stay in alignment. The fact that TPTB kept going back to the same well was a clear sign that they were running out of ideas.
The "franchise fatigue" that audiences experienced in terms of Star Trek wasn't really getting tired of the franchise per se. Rather, it was in seeing the same basic things over and over, essentially just recycled. Navel-gazing, by which I mean focusing on things that only hard-core fans cared about, is an example of that, as is too many Mirror Universe episodes. "Franchise fatigue" is a self-serving myth invented by Berman to cover for the fact that TPTB couldn't come up with anything original any more. Audiences got bored. I don't blame them.
That said, "Mirror, Mirror" should have really been a one-off, in which events were precipitated by a momentary alignment of two otherwise divergent universes. There's no intrinsic reason why the pasts and futures of the two universes should stay in alignment. The fact that TPTB kept going back to the same well was a clear sign that they were running out of ideas.
The "franchise fatigue" that audiences experienced in terms of Star Trek wasn't really getting tired of the franchise per se. Rather, it was in seeing the same basic things over and over, essentially just recycled. Navel-gazing, by which I mean focusing on things that only hard-core fans cared about, is an example of that, as is too many Mirror Universe episodes. "Franchise fatigue" is a self-serving myth invented by Berman to cover for the fact that TPTB couldn't come up with anything original any more. Audiences got bored. I don't blame them.
And TV had adapted and moved on in its storytelling motifs. There were so many other science fiction shows that competed for my attention that Voyager and Enterprise couldn't keep me interested.
I hate all Mirror universe episodes. So tired and so trite. I don't like gimmicky plot devices in general.
Absolutely. Episodes of TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT all had similar kinds of story beats. I found it tedious.
Granted, TOS had its own palette of motifs as well, that it hit repeatedly across its run, but that was a period of three years, not fifteen.
I LOVE DS9. I cant stand spock old and new. I hate Janeway. I love Archer. I cant stand Data. I think Geordi is a ladies man. Picard is better than Kirk, But Sisco is the most badass. I Like Captain Maxwell and Jellicho. Admiral Nemchev is hot, i think Picard banged her. I ve been on this damn board for 15 years and this is my first post.
I hate watching TNG now. It feels so dated and, frankly, I find it less intellectually fulfilling than I remember. It's better to live off the memories of how great it was than confront those memories.
The Mirror Universe is a one note. Both DS9 and Enterprise should have left it alone after one episode.
The Mirror Universe is a one note. Both DS9 and Enterprise should have left it alone after one episode.
M
marlboro
Guest
I like Star trek 5 more than Star Trek 4 or any of the TNG movies. Probably no need to read further than that. 
I hate Rom.
Chekov was kind of a crappy character.
I think it was a bad idea to introduce the Ezri Dax character in the final season of DS9.
I don't care for the way Worf was portrayed on DS9 vs TNG.
Q should never have appeared outside of TNG.
Gene Roddenberry seemed like kind of a dick.
I dislike many of Trek's "message" shows. Even when I agree with the message, it is usually delivered with the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
TBTB should have been more ruthless at removing the "dead wood" from their casts. If the character or actor is truly a dud, cut 'em loose.
Jeri Ryan was one of the best actors in the main cast of any Trek series.
I think Roxann Dawson is very underrated as an actress.
I think Trek fans make a mistake by dismissing entire series. Every series has good and bad episodes - watch the ones you like, skip the ones you don't and don't worry about what other people think.
I hate Rom.
Chekov was kind of a crappy character.
I think it was a bad idea to introduce the Ezri Dax character in the final season of DS9.
I don't care for the way Worf was portrayed on DS9 vs TNG.
Q should never have appeared outside of TNG.
Gene Roddenberry seemed like kind of a dick.
I dislike many of Trek's "message" shows. Even when I agree with the message, it is usually delivered with the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
TBTB should have been more ruthless at removing the "dead wood" from their casts. If the character or actor is truly a dud, cut 'em loose.
Jeri Ryan was one of the best actors in the main cast of any Trek series.
I think Roxann Dawson is very underrated as an actress.
I think Trek fans make a mistake by dismissing entire series. Every series has good and bad episodes - watch the ones you like, skip the ones you don't and don't worry about what other people think.
M
marlboro
Guest
When I think of early Spock, I always chuckle about his tendency to yell all of his lines. Maybe he thought it was necessary since all of his crew mates had such small ears?
I distrust (not really hate, just don't think it would work) the concept of a society without money.
Even more so: I hate the preaching about the thing, worse than the actual thing.
I'm with you. Back when I was younger I liked the idea of the Trek universe being So Much Better than ours, but I don't connect with it. Sometimes I'll watch TNG just for the saccharine optimism, but I prefer ST novels in which the Trek verse seems at least remotely plausible.. (Admitting the possibility of FTL travel, at least. Stories can get away with one miracle, but not a bunch like ST has in mind...)
Jolene Blalock too was one of the better Trek actors. Probably the best on ENT.
I hope T'Pol turns out to be the inevitable ENT cameo who turns up on DSC.
I hate the bridge of the Enterprise-D. It's too spread out. I much prefer the TMP-style bridge.
It will actually be Porthos.
Oh, and the Voyager's gimmick of variable-angle warp nacelles is stupid. It's a ship, not an F-14.
The NX-01 Enterprise looks like a Jiffy-Pop pan.
Starfleet's design philosophy of turning big ships into glorified cruise liners and only using small ships as pure combat or exploration ships is also stupid. Doing otherwise would not only make more sense, it would permit/force more casual activity off-ship.
None of the VOY villains or antagonistic species unique to Voyager were interesting. The Kazon were dollar-store Klingons.
The NX-01 Enterprise looks like a Jiffy-Pop pan.
Starfleet's design philosophy of turning big ships into glorified cruise liners and only using small ships as pure combat or exploration ships is also stupid. Doing otherwise would not only make more sense, it would permit/force more casual activity off-ship.
None of the VOY villains or antagonistic species unique to Voyager were interesting. The Kazon were dollar-store Klingons.
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