Threshold episode kinda actually works
- Thread starter Deks
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I think the initial idea was that Warp 10 would be an impossible velocity, regardless of what new technology was invented in the future, and the concept of occupying every point in the Universe was to show how impossible it was. Not even Q could go that fast. Ideally, a much more advanced ship than the Voyager could literally hop entire galaxies without reaching Warp 10 (it would be in the Warp 9.999999999+ range instead).
I think the episode just needs a few tweeks to make it better. 1) instead of aiming for warp 10 what of they found some new element or something that would allow them to achieve "super warp" 2) instead of "evolving" something else happens, maybe the element makes the pilot psychotic 3) there had to be real non reversable reasons why the "super warp" cannot be used
Psychosis aside, it sounds kinda like the quantum slipstream from Timeless
Yes, warp scale is supposed to asymptotically approach 10, at which point velocity is infinite, requiring an infinite energy expenditure to reach. I suppose being everywhere all at once is the only way to truly be at infinite velocity, but I don't know if that was meant to show its impossibility. The fact that Paris reached warp 10 by definition shows it was possible. Paris should never have achieved warp 10 at all. Maybe he didn't... they just all thought he did? That would make a little more sense.
Mutating is evolving.
Paris and Janeway's mutations were capable of being naturally passed to a successive generation.
My understanding is the Human Paris and Janeway didn't have Human children who were then exposed to the warp ten effect, but were conceived and born after Paris and Janeway both experience the mutation.
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Also, Paris spent far more time 'evolving' than Janeway did. How could she have reached the same level of evolution, for lack of a better term, that Paris was on so they could conceive those salamander babies?
Plus, Janeway's first trip on Warp 10 was Paris' second. Why didn't it affect him even more so?
Plus, Janeway's first trip on Warp 10 was Paris' second. Why didn't it affect him even more so?
That's the thing, no one should have been able to reach Warp 10--not even Q. I think Warp 10 was meant simply to be an absolute value, with anything just shy of that more than fast enough to cross the entire Universe in the blink of an eye.
They could have just removed Warp 10 from the script and just had Paris fly a transwarp engine or any kind of new engine that was faster than warp drive.
Not really y, although the reverse is fairly true.
Most mutations are not beneficial.
Many people object to calling what happens to Tom "evolution" because of things like him suddenly finding the atmosphere toxic. They say that evolution never makes something less suited to its environment. Mutation usually does, however.
As I explained, the idea of what happened to Paris and Janeway is better expressed as them being transformed into a future form of humanity.
And for some reason the parade of future forms stopped at giant salamander. By the time Voyager found them both Janeway and Paris were in the same form because they had both reached the end of the series of transformations.
Brannon Braga has cited this as one of his biggest mistakes. I still watch it when I'm watching Voyager. Sometimes something is so bad it can be entertaining. I find this episode is barely that, but it's still watchable. I know Braga is sometimes maligned by fans, but I give him credit for owning up to his mistakes and not trying to make excuses. He's basically said, nope it's bad, my bad.
I'm not aware that it was kicked out of canon, unless you mean fans have chosen to ignore it. I don't think any Star Trek ever shown on screen was booted out of canon, even TFF, which Rodenberry thought had questionable value in canon is considered canon.
I'm not aware that it was kicked out of canon, unless you mean fans have chosen to ignore it. I don't think any Star Trek ever shown on screen was booted out of canon, even TFF, which Rodenberry thought had questionable value in canon is considered canon.
Eh? What?
I think fans have collectively chosen to consider it non canon...like Star Trek 5 or the animates series
Code of Honor will need to enter the Octagon with Threshold over that.
Yes really.
Well, The Animated Series is different from the others: it was considered non-canon because Paramount didn't own the rights. Once Paramount aquired the rights they started calling it canon.
Yeah, Code of Honor was bad on so many levels. That actually was one of the cases it was almost so bad it was entertaining for it's badness. Everything they could do wrong they did. Threshold is probably the worse episode of Voyager IMHO, but it still doesn't approach the badness of Code of Honor--thinking back, personally I think that is the worse Star Trek production ever IMO.
There was a time the Animated Series was considered non-canon, so that is one case where something on screen was non-canon. I think it had to do with one of Rodenberry's staffers, I forget which. Memory-Alpha probably has something about that if I could remember who it was. But it is now considered canon along with all on screen productions. And as far as I know that includes Threshold. I've never seen anything that said to the contrary (though fans may choose to ignore it).
The only thing that works with "Threshold" is to imagine that it was a nightmare Janeway had after eating too much of Neelix's food before going to bed.
By doing so, the episode is actually hilarious, otherwise it's just annoying.
However, "Threshold" is not the worst Voyager episode.
By doing so, the episode is actually hilarious, otherwise it's just annoying.
However, "Threshold" is not the worst Voyager episode.
I don't consider threahold to be the worst. I don't skip it in my rewatches. I skip other episodes like Tattoo, Persistance of Vision, and 11:59.
It was kicked out of canon because when 7 of 9 mentioned she wanted to generate a TW conduit, Torres said 'We don't know anything about TW technology, playing around with it could be dangerous'.
And Paris statement a bit later on in the same episode: 'I never navigated a TW conduit before.'.
As I said before, it is accurate that Paris never really navigated in TW... but to say they know nothing of TW is ridiculous. Subsequent research into Paris TW flight should have given them a MOUNTAIN of data to analyze and subsequently improve their own engines and other things on the fly.
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