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In what way? There was a mod notification on the thread, so Neroon closed it temporarily for review and to allow cooler heads to prevail. Upon reopening the thread the same people went right back to the same hostile back and forth with accusations of racism and trolling. So, in order to avoid what would inevitably continue on in a downward spiral until infractions would have to be handed out, Neroon closed the thread.

I didn't try to get the thread reopened because I don't really enjoy wasting my time.

Not out of protecting anyone who has mod favoritism or who is part of any "clique" - because there were people close to the line on both sides - but just because believe it or not, in general we really don't like having to give out infractions except as a last ditch thing. I can't find any fault with Neroon's closing of that thread. It was the sensible thing to do to avoid people getting in trouble, which would not have been an alternative you or others would have been that happy with either, I believe.

To be clear on this - the issue of certain users enjoying protected status and certain moderators being overzealous with the lock button are separate issues. I never accused Neroon of being part of the first group nor did I even mention him or any other moderator by name. I was asked for a recent example and I provided one. It just so happened to be one Neroon closed.

At some point though I really think you need to examine the fact that you seem to have pretty much a consistently negative view of every staff member you deal with with any regularity on top of a large number of members of the board, not to mention the entire atmosphere of the board itself according to your comments in this thread. Who's the one common denominator that connects all of those very different people and forums together? Maybe the negativity is coming from there instead of from everyone else.

First, I deal with RJ, Holdfast, Jadzia (before she left) and a whole bunch of others without any such negativity being remotely necessary. What is the difference between the way they treat their role on the board and the way other mods do ?

I don't want to get into an argument with you or anything, but honestly, this was a lighthearted topic and you really kind of turned it into a downer by saying how much the staff sucks, and certain forums suck, and certain members suck. It's really not fair to kind of force everyone else to share in your own misery all the time. If you're going to stick around here (this is not asking you to leave) you need to make some effort to make things better too instead of fixating purely on the negative all the time.

Look, I know we haven't gotten along in the past, but I'm not saying this to try and insult or attack you. If you're genuinely not happy here something needs to change, and that effort has to be a two-way street. If there are things you'd like us to change, communicate them to us. But the constant negativity needs to stop, because it's draining on people.

I have tried!

I have tried and tried and tried but all I get is empty promises from T'Bonz (oh, and threats to be booted off the board for something to do with Timby I'm still not clear on) and fucking Garak following me around making disgusting references to paedophilia in reply to my posts on completely unrelated topics while you people congratulate him for it.

You want positive changes ? I'll give you some ideas.

1) More infractions for flamebaiting.

2) Calmer, friendlier moderating. Explain why a thread was locked, don't just make a comment about how you're not in the mood.

3) Less misuse of the separation between moderator and poster. If a moderator does something wrong, he shouldn't be able to use "I'm saying this as a poster, not a mod" to wave it away. Everything you say represents the board whether you like it or not. Moderators should lead by example.

4) MA threads should only allow comments from the person warned and members of that forum's staff. Nobody else. They turn in to a general ranting session otherwise.

5) At least be careful with thread bombs. Some of them are quite funny, sure, but sometimes they read like things you'd be warned for if you hadn't pasted the text over the top of a funny picture.

And yes, I'm sure I can be negative but at least I try to do something about it which is a lot more than the "quit whing(e)ing" brigade can say.

There are some genuinely cool people on here who I enjoy talking to a lot, even though I don't always agree with them I can usually come out of it with a better understanding of their side and can at least (virtually) shake their hand at the end. It's a shame more posters can't be like that.
 
I have tried and tried and tried but all I get is empty promises from T'Bonz (oh, and threats to be booted off the board for something to do with Timby I'm still not clear on) and fucking Garak following me around making disgusting references to paedophilia in reply to my posts on completely unrelated topics while you people congratulate him for it.

See, that's exactly my problem with you. You're so thin-skinned you just can't take a joke. Of course calling Wenger a pedophile isn't very classy, but surely that can't be the worst thing you've ever heard someone say about Arsenal? I mean that's fucking football. But you just can't let anything go, ever.
 
I have tried and tried and tried but all I get is empty promises from T'Bonz (oh, and threats to be booted off the board for something to do with Timby I'm still not clear on) and fucking Garak following me around making disgusting references to paedophilia in reply to my posts on completely unrelated topics while you people congratulate him for it.

See, that's exactly my problem with you. You're so thin-skinned you just can't take a joke. Of course calling Wenger a pedophile isn't very classy, but surely that can't be the worst thing you've ever heard someone say about Arsenal? I mean that's fucking football. But you just can't let anything go, ever.

Okay, here's the deal. I get football banter. That's fine as long as it goes both ways. There are more than a few football fans who support all sorts of teams in my workplace who know full well that I can take it as well as dish it out. That's part of being a fan.

I did let it go, I haven't replied to any of posts - posts he was told in no uncertain terms to stop making - or reported them.
 
In what way? There was a mod notification on the thread, so Neroon closed it temporarily for review and to allow cooler heads to prevail. Upon reopening the thread the same people went right back to the same hostile back and forth with accusations of racism and trolling. So, in order to avoid what would inevitably continue on in a downward spiral until infractions would have to be handed out, Neroon closed the thread.

I didn't try to get the thread reopened because I don't really enjoy wasting my time.

Having gone over some of your posts in the Thor thread, I would beg to differ. :p

Not out of protecting anyone who has mod favoritism or who is part of any "clique" - because there were people close to the line on both sides - but just because believe it or not, in general we really don't like having to give out infractions except as a last ditch thing. I can't find any fault with Neroon's closing of that thread. It was the sensible thing to do to avoid people getting in trouble, which would not have been an alternative you or others would have been that happy with either, I believe.

To be clear on this - the issue of certain users enjoying protected status and certain moderators being overzealous with the lock button are separate issues. I never accused Neroon of being part of the first group nor did I even mention him or any other moderator by name. I was asked for a recent example and I provided one. It just so happened to be one Neroon closed.

If you really think certain individuals are given carte blanche by the mods here, you could approach the mods (privately) and state your case. They may be cranky, but they are generally reasonable people, and usually willing to take the viewpoints of others into account.

But you'd have to state your concerns calmly, rationally, and without resorting to accusation and hyperbole. Your posting style and the attitude that comes through with it is often very abrasive, and that's not going to get people to listen to you.

At some point though I really think you need to examine the fact that you seem to have pretty much a consistently negative view of every staff member you deal with with any regularity on top of a large number of members of the board, not to mention the entire atmosphere of the board itself according to your comments in this thread. Who's the one common denominator that connects all of those very different people and forums together? Maybe the negativity is coming from there instead of from everyone else.

First, I deal with RJ, Holdfast, Jadzia (before she left) and a whole bunch of others without any such negativity being remotely necessary. What is the difference between the way they treat their role on the board and the way other mods do ?

We're all different people, for one thing. I'm the fresh meat mod, so I'm still a wide-eyed optimist. :p

I don't want to get into an argument with you or anything, but honestly, this was a lighthearted topic and you really kind of turned it into a downer by saying how much the staff sucks, and certain forums suck, and certain members suck. It's really not fair to kind of force everyone else to share in your own misery all the time. If you're going to stick around here (this is not asking you to leave) you need to make some effort to make things better too instead of fixating purely on the negative all the time.

Look, I know we haven't gotten along in the past, but I'm not saying this to try and insult or attack you. If you're genuinely not happy here something needs to change, and that effort has to be a two-way street. If there are things you'd like us to change, communicate them to us. But the constant negativity needs to stop, because it's draining on people.

I have tried!

I have tried and tried and tried but all I get is empty promises from T'Bonz (oh, and threats to be booted off the board for something to do with Timby I'm still not clear on) and fucking Garak following me around making disgusting references to paedophilia in reply to my posts on completely unrelated topics while you people congratulate him for it.

Have you ever considered not rising to the bait? It takes two to tango.

You want positive changes ? I'll give you some ideas.

1) More infractions for flamebaiting.

Unless you calm down your posting style, you would be one of the first people to start receiving those infractions.

2) Calmer, friendlier moderating. Explain why a thread was locked, don't just make a comment about how you're not in the mood.

I agree that that isn't a good way for mods to conduct themselves.

3) Less misuse of the separation between moderator and poster. If a moderator does something wrong, he shouldn't be able to use "I'm saying this as a poster, not a mod" to wave it away. Everything you say represents the board whether you like it or not. Moderators should lead by example.

I try to keep this in mind when I post. But being a moderator isn't a full-time job. We're posters first, and mods second. We're here to enjoy the board as much as anyone else. It's actually kind of aggravating when you have to step out of poster mode and put on your mod hat because some people can't act like grownups.

4) MA threads should only allow comments from the person warned and members of that forum's staff. Nobody else. They turn in to a general ranting session otherwise.

MA isn't really an issue anymore. We have maybe one thread a month in there? And it's almost always closed quickly because it violates the rules of the MA forum.

5) At least be careful with thread bombs. Some of them are quite funny, sure, but sometimes they read like things you'd be warned for if you hadn't pasted the text over the top of a funny picture.

If you see a questionable threadbomb, by all means, report it! There is nothing stopping you from reporting those the same way you'd report anything else. Saying "fuck you, asshole" on a picture of a cat is no different from just typing it out straight-up.

And yes, I'm sure I can be negative but at least I try to do something about it which is a lot more than the "quit whing(e)ing" brigade can say.

It's not just your negativity, but your overall persecution complex. People bait you because they know it's so easy to push your buttons. Everybody knows your hot-button topics, too, and can goad you into posting walls of text filled with invective and righteous anger. At some point you have to stop and ask yourself, "What am I doing to help this situation?"

There are some genuinely cool people on here who I enjoy talking to a lot, even though I don't always agree with them I can usually come out of it with a better understanding of their side and can at least (virtually) shake their hand at the end. It's a shame more posters can't be like that.

Yes, it's a shame some people can't act like adults, but that's the Internet for you. Learn to ignore people who can't act right. Life is much easier that way.
 
If you really think certain individuals are given carte blanche by the mods here, you could approach the mods (privately) and state your case. They may be cranky, but they are generally reasonable people, and usually willing to take the viewpoints of others into account.

I have tried following the rulebook on this with no success.

But you'd have to state your concerns calmly, rationally, and without resorting to accusation and hyperbole. Your posting style and the attitude that comes through with it is often very abrasive, and that's not going to get people to listen to you.

I'm only as abrasive towards people as they are towards me. As you said below, it takes two to tango.

Unless you calm down your posting style, you would be one of the first people to start receiving those infractions.

Maybe so, but then I do not go in to threads looking to wind people up for "the giggles" and I don't hide behind the "It's a Star Trek message board, why should I be serious ?" excuse. That's the difference. I don't find making other people angry quite as amusing as the people I'm talking about do.

I try to keep this in mind when I post. But being a moderator isn't a full-time job. We're posters first, and mods second. We're here to enjoy the board as much as anyone else. It's actually kind of aggravating when you have to step out of poster mode and put on your mod hat because some people can't act like grownups.

As far as I'm concerned, that mod hat is superglued to your skull the moment your username changes colour. You represent the staff even when you aren't even posting in a forum you are responsible for.

MA isn't really an issue anymore. We have maybe one thread a month in there? And it's almost always closed quickly because it violates the rules of the MA forum.

That doesn't mean the next one that does follow the rules won't turn in to a free for all.

If you see a questionable threadbomb, by all means, report it! There is nothing stopping you from reporting those the same way you'd report anything else. Saying "fuck you, asshole" on a picture of a cat is no different from just typing it out straight-up.

As I said, I don't report anything anymore. Repeating an action knowing it will fail is a symptom of insanity.

It's not just your negativity, but your overall persecution complex. People bait you because they know it's so easy to push your buttons. Everybody knows your hot-button topics, too, and can goad you into posting walls of text filled with invective and righteous anger. At some point you have to stop and ask yourself, "What am I doing to help this situation?"

Sure, I can get angry about things. If I thought about it long enough there are plenty of subjects I can raise that would generate the same response out of many a more popular poster too. I choose not to do that. I choose not to wind other people up for my own entertainment.
 
If you really think certain individuals are given carte blanche by the mods here, you could approach the mods (privately) and state your case. They may be cranky, but they are generally reasonable people, and usually willing to take the viewpoints of others into account.

I have tried following the rulebook on this with no success.

Then what's the use in continuing to complain about it, as you are in this thread? Down below, you said it's insanity to repeat the same action while expecting different results. Well, according to you, nothing has changed--mods are assholes, protected posters get away with murder, and no one cares what you think.

If that's really how you feel, why are you still here, talking about it?

But you'd have to state your concerns calmly, rationally, and without resorting to accusation and hyperbole. Your posting style and the attitude that comes through with it is often very abrasive, and that's not going to get people to listen to you.

I'm only as abrasive towards people as they are towards me. As you said below, it takes two to tango.

That means the same thing as "rising to the bait," which you should avoid.

Maybe so, but then I do not go in to threads looking to wind people up for "the giggles" and I don't hide behind the "It's a Star Trek message board, why should I be serious ?" excuse. That's the difference. I don't find making other people angry quite as amusing as the people I'm talking about do.

And yet you are often eager to get wound up when others goad you. Take the extra step--in addition to not winding people up, don't get wound up yourself.

As far as I'm concerned, that mod hat is superglued to your skull the moment your username changes colour. You represent the staff even when you aren't even posting in a forum you are responsible for.

That doesn't seem to stop many a poster from being disrespectful and rude to those with green (or orange or yellow) names. :p

That doesn't mean the next one that does follow the rules won't turn in to a free for all.

And you'll be there to lament the lack of decorum, I'm sure. I recall you pop into just about every legit MA thread to expound on your position. Put another way: you do not help the situation you're criticizing here.

If you see a questionable threadbomb, by all means, report it! There is nothing stopping you from reporting those the same way you'd report anything else. Saying "fuck you, asshole" on a picture of a cat is no different from just typing it out straight-up.

As I said, I don't report anything anymore. Repeating an action knowing it will fail is a symptom of insanity.

It wasn't that long ago you reported the Arsenal thing.

It's not just your negativity, but your overall persecution complex. People bait you because they know it's so easy to push your buttons. Everybody knows your hot-button topics, too, and can goad you into posting walls of text filled with invective and righteous anger. At some point you have to stop and ask yourself, "What am I doing to help this situation?"

Sure, I can get angry about things. If I thought about it long enough there are plenty of subjects I can raise that would generate the same response out of many a more popular poster too. I choose not to do that. I choose not to wind other people up for my own entertainment.

Then choose not to rise to the bait. When you think someone is trolling you, either ignore it or report it. Just because you report it, though, doesn't mean someone will get warned. All mods get to weigh in on these things, and unless there is general agreement that an infraction is deserved, there won't be one. Maybe there will be a friendly. Maybe we'll just keep an eye on the thread to make sure it doesn't escalate. But every post that is reported gets attention, whether you believe it or not. Just because we don't always hand out an infraction doesn't mean no one is paying attention.
 
If that's really how you feel, why are you still here, talking about it?

The assertion of this thread is that "This is the best message board on the Internet". It isn't but there are things that can be done to make it better.

That means the same thing as "rising to the bait," which you should avoid.

And yet you are often eager to get wound up when others goad you. Take the extra step--in addition to not winding people up, don't get wound up yourself.

And then the board will turn in to a magical happy land full of sunshine and puppies ? I have to say, I'm sceptical about this theory.

And you'll be there to lament the lack of decorum, I'm sure. I recall you pop into just about every legit MA thread to expound on your position. Put another way: you do not help the situation you're criticizing here.

I do that to counteract the usual situation where, more often than not, it's one of the moderators I'm talking about who has caused the problem and all of his chums rush in to defend him. Restrict MA threads to people who need to be involved and that won't happen.

Oh, and that's another suggestion I forgot to mention - make the Briefing Room publicly readable (read only) to all posters. If people can see how decisions are made then they're less likely to misunderstand the reasoning behind them.

Then choose not to rise to the bait. When you think someone is trolling you, either ignore it or report it. Just because you report it, though, doesn't mean someone will get warned. All mods get to weigh in on these things, and unless there is general agreement that an infraction is deserved, there won't be one. Maybe there will be a friendly. Maybe we'll just keep an eye on the thread to make sure it doesn't escalate. But every post that is reported gets attention, whether you believe it or not. Just because we don't always hand out an infraction doesn't mean no one is paying attention.

As good a reason as any to make the change suggested above.

As Locutus says, though, this has to be a two-way street. If I'm supposed to stop reacting the way I sometimes do then I want to see others change too.
 
If that's really how you feel, why are you still here, talking about it?

The assertion of this thread is that "This is the best message board on the Internet". It isn't but there are things that can be done to make it better.

There are always things that can be done to make it better. However, most of your suggestions would be unnecessary if you modified your own behavior first.

That means the same thing as "rising to the bait," which you should avoid.

And then the board will turn in to a magical happy land full of sunshine and puppies ? I have to say, I'm sceptical about this theory.

No, but you might quit getting so riled up about everything.

Most people don't complain incessantly about how this place is run. If it bothers you that much, I might suggest taking a break and reminding yourself that this is the Internet. None of this really matters. If you aren't having fun, why are you here? The notion that someone would keep coming back to a community they find hostile and poorly-run is anathema to me.

And you'll be there to lament the lack of decorum, I'm sure. I recall you pop into just about every legit MA thread to expound on your position. Put another way: you do not help the situation you're criticizing here.

I do that to counteract the usual situation where, more often than not, it's one of the moderators I'm talking about who has caused the problem and all of his chums rush in to defend him. Restrict MA threads to people who need to be involved and that won't happen.

Then there's no point to having MA at all, because it can be discussed between the mods and the poster in question via PM.

Oh, and that's another suggestion I forgot to mention - make the Briefing Room publicly readable (read only) to all posters. If people can see how decisions are made then they're less likely to misunderstand the reasoning behind them.

I thought you wanted MA to become less of a circus. Opening up the BR for public perusal is a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened.

Then choose not to rise to the bait. When you think someone is trolling you, either ignore it or report it. Just because you report it, though, doesn't mean someone will get warned. All mods get to weigh in on these things, and unless there is general agreement that an infraction is deserved, there won't be one. Maybe there will be a friendly. Maybe we'll just keep an eye on the thread to make sure it doesn't escalate. But every post that is reported gets attention, whether you believe it or not. Just because we don't always hand out an infraction doesn't mean no one is paying attention.

As good a reason as any to make the change suggested above.

As Locutus says, though, this has to be a two-way street. If I'm supposed to stop reacting the way I sometimes do then I want to see others change too.

You are responsible for no one's behavior but your own. Don't worry about how other people act--worry about yourself. If you abide by the rules and contribute positively to the board, you won't have any problems here.

Those who don't will be dealt with. Maybe they won't get hit today or tomorrow, but they will be dealt with in time if they keep pushing. We don't make an announcement every time someone is banned, you know. Myriad troublemakers have been tossed out in recent memory and most people haven't noticed. We haven't gotten all of them, but efforts are being made.

I get the impression what you really want is to have the board's dirty laundry aired for all to see so you can come in and opine on that and play armchair moderator.
 
You know what I like?

Cookies.

There always seems to be someone willing to share their cookies, ice cream, or booze on this board. That makes everything really awesome here.

Anyone willing to share with me? I'm out of all three.
 
You know what I like?

Cookies.

There always seems to be someone willing to share their cookies, ice cream, or booze on this board. That makes everything really awesome here.

Anyone willing to share with me? I'm out of all three.

I don't drink beer, but I always have cookies and ice cream to spare. What kind do you like? :D
 
There are always things that can be done to make it better. However, most of your suggestions would be unnecessary if you modified your own behavior first.

Right now you're making it sound like the every problem on this board, including problems local to forums I don't even post in, is somehow my fault.

Then there's no point to having MA at all, because it can be discussed between the mods and the poster in question via PM.

Again, doing it in public keeps things transparent.

I thought you wanted MA to become less of a circus. Opening up the BR for public perusal is a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened.

Not unless you guys have something to hide.

You are responsible for no one's behavior but your own. Don't worry about how other people act--worry about yourself. If you abide by the rules and contribute positively to the board, you won't have any problems here.

So, basically, it is a one way street after all. Speaking as a committed pedestrian, I ignore one way signs.

Those who don't will be dealt with. Maybe they won't get hit today or tomorrow, but they will be dealt with in time if they keep pushing. We don't make an announcement every time someone is banned, you know. Myriad troublemakers have been tossed out in recent memory and most people haven't noticed. We haven't gotten all of them, but efforts are being made.

I can think of at least five who you haven't tossed out while, in the meantime, I've been publicly threatened with being booted myself for reasons I still don't quite understand.

I get the impression what you really want is to have the board's dirty laundry aired for all to see so you can come in and opine on that and play armchair moderator.

No, not at all. There shouldn't be any "dirty" laundry. If you guys are acting responsibly and making decisions in a calm, reasonable manner then you would have nothing to fear from me or anyone else.

As for my "mini-modding", I can think of one mod who got the job by doing the same thing.
 
There are always things that can be done to make it better. However, most of your suggestions would be unnecessary if you modified your own behavior first.

Right now you're making it sound like the every problem on this board, including problems local to forums I don't even post in, is somehow my fault.

Of course that's not what I'm saying. But the problems you describe usually involve you directly, so you can hardly claim to be an impartial third party.

Then there's no point to having MA at all, because it can be discussed between the mods and the poster in question via PM.

Again, doing it in public keeps things transparent.

This is a private board. There is no requirement for transparency here. I don't recall Bonz ever promising "transparency," either. About the only thing that is done transparently is the issuance of infractions, which are declared in the relevant thread. But the discussion behind them is not revealed, nor who originally reported it, nor what each mod thought of it.

So, if you are expecting true transparency here, I think you are going to be very disappointed.

Not unless you guys have something to hide.

:rolleyes: Not much besides pissing and moaning over the bullshit we have to deal with because people on the Interbutt want to act like children.

So, basically, it is a one way street after all. Speaking as a committed pedestrian, I ignore one way signs.

Suit yourself. Continue acting like you're entitled, you're persecuted, and the whole board is out to get you. See how far that takes you in life.

Those who don't will be dealt with. Maybe they won't get hit today or tomorrow, but they will be dealt with in time if they keep pushing. We don't make an announcement every time someone is banned, you know. Myriad troublemakers have been tossed out in recent memory and most people haven't noticed. We haven't gotten all of them, but efforts are being made.

I can think of at least five who you haven't tossed out while, in the meantime, I've been publicly threatened with being booted myself for reasons I still don't quite understand.

If you don't know why you're threatened with being tossed (I don't actually know anything about that), have you directly asked a mod or admin? Or have you just been grousing about it in threads like this?

I get the impression what you really want is to have the board's dirty laundry aired for all to see so you can come in and opine on that and play armchair moderator.

No, not at all. There shouldn't be any "dirty" laundry. If you guys are acting responsibly and making decisions in a calm, reasonable manner then you would have nothing to fear from me or anyone else.

Yeah, let me tell you, the BR is nothing but a cesspool of rage and hatred directed at the scum of the board. There's at least one thread a day devoted to figuring out ways to piss you off and earn your ire. We spend all our free time thinking up new and creative techniques for tormenting all the good posters, and issue virtual back-pats to all the troublemakers for a job well done.

As for my "mini-modding", I can think of one mod who got the job by doing the same thing.

That would be the exception, not the rule.

You don't drink beer?

Not always. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.

Stay thirsty, my friends.
 
That's what makes this place so great - there's space for serious discussions and high-school humour. Sometimes in the same conversation
Yes I do enjoy this. The serious and detailed discussions and a little humor.

With our BBS statistics Members: 16,575, and Active Members: 3,146

There are usually 200-300 active users at once which makes for great interactive conversations via posting within an hour or two usually.
 
This is the board I've been at the longest where I still post. I've come and gone on many other boards, but this one has the most staying power--perhaps because it is constantly evolving.
 
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