This girl confuses me......

[Data Holmes]

^ I'm not sure what's confusing you, so let me try again.

What I'm trying to say is the games you describe are games played by immature people - immature emotionally. It doesn't matter how old they are chronologically, or whether they are technically girls or women, boys or men. If they do this stuff, they still need to grow up emotionally.

And I wasn't talking about the people that play the games, but the females who fall for the games played by those who do.

I'm I the only one who doesn't live in the world of TV romantic drama? I've never known anyone who played such silly little games outside of high school.

The games are similar, they just don't carry the overly dramatic obviousness of the games played in the HS setting... Most of the time. However, most people seem to continue to run off the learned social structure from HS and never advance beyond, simply adapt it to a more subtle design they conceive as the adult model.

Mature adults just don't do this ridiculous stuff.

The true mature adult is becoming far more rare in this day and age. Stunted emotional developments, derived from the chain of parents who "raise their children different" from their parents is the driving force in this chain of events that started following the second world war and has evolved into the "Me first, Mine mine mine" culture of the US today.

It's not that difficult to be clear about one's intentions with a potential partner or friend, games are childish and unnecessary.

I agree with you on this point. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't seem to be the majority case based on social interactions I observe.

If I caught even a whiff of such behavior from a man I'd have him out of my life in an instant.

Well... You aren't an emotionally stunted adult-child like most people are these days.

 

[JonathonWally]

I agree with you on this point. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't seem to be the majority case based on social interactions I observe.

How about ones you actually partake in?

 

[Data Holmes]

I agree with you on this point. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't seem to be the majority case based on social interactions I observe.

How about ones you actually partake in?

I am not good at that, at least I haven't been the few times I've tried.

 

[JuanBolio]

I don't get what the big deal is about the friend thing. Sometimes there's going to be someone who is a perfectly nice decent human being and yet they might not be attractive to a woman. If both people are upfront about their interests and expectations, why does it matter? Why would a guy expect more from a girl who has said that she's not interested in him romantically?

Well, for one thing I've never had a female friend who I wouldn't consider dating, or at least having sex with. If I like a girl well enough to be friends with her, I like her well enough to have a relationship with her. It is automatic.

Secondly, it is extremely insulting and hurtful when you care very much about a girl who's got you classed as a "friend" and know her very well, yet she shows no interest in return and instead throws herself at guys who often don't care about her, who she just met, or who treat her like garbage.

do guys put girls in "friend zones"?

I don't, no.

 

[thestrangequark]

I think it is unfair to blame a girl for not being interested in a male friend. Just because you want to sleep with any girl that's good enough to be your friend doesn't mean it works the other way around. I have male friends whom I care about dearly, but whom I would not consider sleeping with for one of a few reasons, e.g. I can tell our personalities would clash romantically, or I don't want to damage a good friendship by adding sex to the equation, or I'm not attracted to them in that way, or I'm not interested in carrying on any sexual relationship at the time. There are any number of reasons a girl won't want to sleep with male friends, and I think men just need to get over themselves and realize this.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

do guys put girls in "friend zones"?

I don't, no.

So does this mean that you don't believe that men and women can just be friends?

 

[JuanBolio]

do guys put girls in "friend zones"?

I don't, no.

So does this mean that you don't believe that men and women can just be friends?

Not at all. I simply don't rule out the possibility of being more than friends with any women I accept as a friend.

I think it is unfair to blame a girl for not being interested in a male friend. Just because you want to sleep with any girl that's good enough to be your friend doesn't mean it works the other way around. I have male friends whom I care about dearly, but whom I would not consider sleeping with for one of a few reasons, e.g. I can tell our personalities would clash romantically, or I don't want to damage a good friendship by adding sex to the equation, or I'm not attracted to them in that way, or I'm not interested in carrying on any sexual relationship at the time. There are any number of reasons a girl won't want to sleep with male friends, and I think men just need to get over themselves and realize this.

...and I think most women are entirely too picky, often based on superficial attributes and criteria.

By the way... how exactly can sex damage a friendship? I've never understood this.

 

[emacs]

WHY does she spend a lot of her free time talking to me online and texting me during the day if she isn't attracted to me?

lol ... people communicate to other people all the time. there's no need to over analyse the situation.

 

[emacs]

Secondly, it is extremely insulting and hurtful when you care very much about a girl who's got you classed as a "friend" and know her very well, yet she shows no interest in return ...

i guarantee you that you never actually told her, in words, exactly how you feel.

 

[JuanBolio]

Secondly, it is extremely insulting and hurtful when you care very much about a girl who's got you classed as a "friend" and know her very well, yet she shows no interest in return ...

i guarantee you that you never actually told her, in words, exactly how you feel.

You'd be mistaken.

 

[thestrangequark]

I don't, no.

So does this mean that you don't believe that men and women can just be friends?

Not at all. I simply don't rule out the possibility of being more than friends with any women I accept as a friend.

I think it is unfair to blame a girl for not being interested in a male friend. Just because you want to sleep with any girl that's good enough to be your friend doesn't mean it works the other way around. I have male friends whom I care about dearly, but whom I would not consider sleeping with for one of a few reasons, e.g. I can tell our personalities would clash romantically, or I don't want to damage a good friendship by adding sex to the equation, or I'm not attracted to them in that way, or I'm not interested in carrying on any sexual relationship at the time. There are any number of reasons a girl won't want to sleep with male friends, and I think men just need to get over themselves and realize this.

...and I think most women are entirely too picky, often based on the wrong priorities.

Sorry, but I think men need to stop blaming women when they can't get a date. I'm just so sick of the argument. It implies that women aren't capable of understanding what's best for themselves or making of good choices. It implies that friendship without sex cannot exist between a man and woman. It implies that a woman is guilty of some kind of wrong just because she doesn't want to date a specific man. It implies that if a man does not meet a specific woman's standards, the problem is hers and not his. It also implies that all a woman goes on is some cold, hard, set list of standards -- that there's no emotion involved in her choices. It's a whiny, pathetic, and somewhat misogynist argument.

By the way... how exactly can sex damage a friendship? I've never understood this.

Easily, unfortunately. Because almost inevitably one party or the other will want the relationship to develop into something more. Friends with benefits can work, but it doesn't seem to work often.

 

[JuanBolio]

It implies that women aren't capable of understanding what's best for themselves or making of good choices.

Some women (and men, too), especially of a certain age, seem not to be. Why else would so many repeatedly seek out bad relationships, often with physically or emotionally abusive men? Not only seek them out, but return to them again and again?

Also, I think you need to realize that I'm talking about some women, not all. Your arguments so far seem to be based on the assumption I'm making sweeping generalizations about your entire gender, and I'm not.

 

[thestrangequark]

^I concede to that reply. It is true that some people behave that way, and it is possible that because of the type of woman a man may be attracted to, he finds himself confronted with such behavior more often than he would be from a greater sampling of women. It did seem to me that you were making sweeping statements -- probably because so many men make those exact statements and are referring to the sex as a whole.

Plus, I admit I am personally sensitive to the kind of losers who make this argument in regards to all women, having been the victim of one such man, who refused an offer of friendship, blamed me for the fact that I didn't find him attractive, and ended up stalking me for a good part of my sophomore year of college when I told him I no longer wanted anything to do with him.

However, I still think it's a bit much to say that women are to picky. I have standards because I'm not interested in losers and assholes. I accept that men have standards too, and that I wouldn't meet the standards of many men. I can make an effort to change the things that are changeable, but other than that I just have to accept that, no matter how I feel about a man, if he doesn't share that emotion, it's just not meant to be. Men need to realize this too.

 

[JonathonWally]

I agree with you on this point. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't seem to be the majority case based on social interactions I observe.

How about ones you actually partake in?

I am not good at that, at least I haven't been the few times I've tried.

To answer your *other* question, and to make a statement on this post.

Observing things in others and experiencing them for yourself are 2 very different things and illicit different reactions.

Everyone plays a game. What kind of game they play is different to each person. Socially and emotionally immature people may play "hurtful" games, while "mature" people know the difference in games that hurt and games that are "fun"

One can observe tons of relationships but it's only from being in them first hand do you actually learn and grow from them.

And to touch on other parts of this entire thread. A lot of times, most people don't know they're confusing the other person, or "playing a game" a lot of the time, that person may not know what they want and are even more confused themselves.

 

[JustKate]

^ I'm not sure what's confusing you, so let me try again.

What I'm trying to say is the games you describe are games played by immature people - immature emotionally. It doesn't matter how old they are chronologically, or whether they are technically girls or women, boys or men. If they do this stuff, they still need to grow up emotionally.

And I wasn't talking about the people that play the games, but the females who fall for the games played by those who do.

That's still playing the game. If they fall for it, they are still playing that same game. The guys wouldn't be able to play if the girls didn't play too. And vice versa.

I'm I the only one who doesn't live in the world of TV romantic drama? I've never known anyone who played such silly little games outside of high school. Mature adults just don't do this ridiculous stuff. It's not that difficult to be clear about one's intentions with a potential partner or friend, games are childish and unnecessary. If I caught even a whiff of such behavior from a man I'd have him out of my life in an instant.

Exactly. I could not agree more.

 

[Mr Awe]

I think it is unfair to blame a girl for not being interested in a male friend. Just because you want to sleep with any girl that's good enough to be your friend doesn't mean it works the other way around. I have male friends whom I care about dearly, but whom I would not consider sleeping with for one of a few reasons, e.g. I can tell our personalities would clash romantically, or I don't want to damage a good friendship by adding sex to the equation, or I'm not attracted to them in that way, or I'm not interested in carrying on any sexual relationship at the time. There are any number of reasons a girl won't want to sleep with male friends, and I think men just need to get over themselves and realize this.

I think this is a great explanation of it. As a guy, I honestly don't find it puzzling. There's not always that spark, for a variety of reasons. And, yes, I do put women in to the friend zone. For the same reasons.

In other words, just because I may not want to sleep with someone doesn't mean that I won't be their friend.

This whole "friend zone" thing seems to be utterly and completely simple to understand.

Mr Awe

 

[melancholymecha]

I think it is unfair to blame a girl for not being interested in a male friend. Just because you want to sleep with any girl that's good enough to be your friend doesn't mean it works the other way around. I have male friends whom I care about dearly, but whom I would not consider sleeping with for one of a few reasons, e.g. I can tell our personalities would clash romantically, or I don't want to damage a good friendship by adding sex to the equation, or I'm not attracted to them in that way, or I'm not interested in carrying on any sexual relationship at the time. There are any number of reasons a girl won't want to sleep with male friends, and I think men just need to get over themselves and realize this.

Sorry, but I think men need to stop blaming women when they can't get a date. I'm just so sick of the argument. It implies that women aren't capable of understanding what's best for themselves or making of good choices. It implies that friendship without sex cannot exist between a man and woman. It implies that a woman is guilty of some kind of wrong just because she doesn't want to date a specific man. It implies that if a man does not meet a specific woman's standards, the problem is hers and not his. It also implies that all a woman goes on is some cold, hard, set list of standards -- that there's no emotion involved in her choices. It's a whiny, pathetic, and somewhat misogynist argument.

I agree...

 

[Strider]

I'm I the only one who doesn't live in the world of TV romantic drama? I've never known anyone who played such silly little games outside of high school. Mature adults just don't do this ridiculous stuff. It's not that difficult to be clear about one's intentions with a potential partner or friend, games are childish and unnecessary. If I caught even a whiff of such behavior from a man I'd have him out of my life in an instant.

As well you should. But you'd be surprised at the childish nonsense that a lot of women will put up with. It's very simple really. The only kind of man worth a woman's time is the kind who is willing to directly state his intentions and ask for a date. From the guy's perspective, yeah it can be pretty stressful. But if a woman isn't forcing a guy to put on his man pants and take the risk, then he's going to think he won you too easily, and then he isn't going to value you.

Similarly, a woman worth pursuing will recognize and respect the man for his clearly stated intentions and give him a clear and honest answer, yes or no. There you have it, both people now understand that they are valued and respected by their date, and they haven't even gone out yet! It's beautiful.

And honestly approach the "friend zone" really cautiously. Having female friends is really, really nice. If you're a good guy, they will love playing Cupid with you and all their single friends. That's absolutely invaluable. Plus, women are just really cool and fun to be around. However, if you have any romantic interest in them at all then being friends is a pretty bad idea. Your goal is to avoid messy and confusing relationships as much as possible. Dating is supposed to be really fun, not horrible. This is all coming from plenty of personal experience, by the way.

 

[QCzar]

When it comes to matters of the heart, ignorance is not bliss. I think you already knew that, BoyNamedSue, and that maybe your fear of the truth has you tied up in knots, not "Katie". In other words, you're confusing yourself.

There is no usual way that women behave in these situations. There is no usual way women behave, period. Each one is a work unto herself, with all the various strokes that make up her life as unique as a fingerprint. The only things they all have in common are largely physiological, same as men.

Just read up on some of our members here. TSQ will never be like Kirk's Tights, no matter what kind of voodoo psychology you try to use. And that's just from their posts. Who knows how different they really are?

None of this is, of course, unique to women. But there is still this notion of underlying enigma that must underpin all women's behavior. There isn't and I myself think that the whole "Mystery, Thy Name Is Woman" thing is a bunch of overblown, bloated, outdated and dare I say sexist tripe meant to give some men a pass for being completely obtuse when it comes to dealing with emotional situations whose solutions are as obvious as the fact that water is wet.

It's too late for BNS, as he's already committed the sin, but to all other guys/ladies reading this, please, take this lesson to heart: People don't come with a list of instructions. Stop, take a step back, analyze the situation for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

If you mess up, it's alright and it'll get better. You'll have learned in the only truly meaningful way. Then you can come and tell us all about it. It'll be far more interesting that way.

 

[Shatmandu]

OK, let me rephrase......

Is this COMMON behavior for most girls?

Do girls latch themselves onto guys like this, even if they aren't attracted to them?

Because I always thought girls never paid this much attention to a certain guy unless they were attracted to him.

Sounds like she wants to be your friend. She likes you, but she doesn't "like" you.

I understand that that's disappointing, but keep in mind: good looking women have good looking friends. One of those good looking friends will be bitching about guys someday soon, and your buddy will say, "I've got the perfect one for you."

Joe, simply