Things you didn't like

[SpocKirk]

If we apply the many worlds theory of current cutting edge particle physics then all possible scenarios are played out in multiple universes and one of those universes would most assuredly have Kirks instant promotion because no matter how remote the possibility it is still a possibility that must be played out.. hope that clears things up for you all

 

[JacksonArcher]

I thought Eric Bana's Nero was a terrible villain. Horribly thin motivations, hardly believeable as a character, and occassionally overacted by Bana. But when you have so little to work with, there's not much you can do with it, I suppose.

While it was great to see Nimoy reprise his role, Spock Prime was sort of hit or miss for me. Nimoy often sounded like he was reading lines. There were some that fell flat, and several that were instantly charming.

Overall, the Trek characters are well acted and portrayed properly, but with the exception of Spock, character development is almost nonexistent. I think anyone that believes this movie to be rich in this area needs to rethink exactly what's presented. Especially with the main character, Kirk, who never goes anywhere developmentwise besides magically becoming Captain at the end of the movie. He's never concerned about his lot in life, he has no real inner conflict to speak of, he simply IS Kirk, which I think does a disservice to the whole "Enlist in Starfleet to change your life" thing. What, was he bored? Oh, he wants to follow in his father's footsteps? Were there scenes I missed where he laments not growing up with his father, wishing he knew him, etc? In a movie as unsubtle as this one occassionally was, that's some exposition it could have used. Instead, the movie relies on what we already know about the characters to flesh them out. Luckily, Spock is given something resembling character development, and that's nice to see.

The basics of the movie's story are solid if simplistic, but in classic Star Trek fashion, the story is all over the place, and the story itself relies on too many absurd conveniences for the dramatic elements. Characters happen to run across each other in weird locations. Capable people just happen to die or fail miserably at their jobs, paving the way for all the classic Trek characters to become officers, instead of those characters stepping up and proving themselves, period. Stuff like this makes this feel less like an organic world, and more like a planned, structured cinematic movie. And I understand that this kind of thing is a staple of Trek mythology, but it's also one of the things that has kept Trek mythology, in my opinion, from achieving greatness in its stories and concepts.

The main issue I have with this movie is that it broke the first tenet of Star Trek: It didn't really boldly go where no movie had gone before. It relied on what Trek fans and even casual fans already know. And it made sure people knew it. There's very little that's really new here. As such, this movie isn't brilliant. It isn't even particularly intelligent. But it is honest. And it is a hell of a ride.

 

[Trekker4747]

Or at the end of THIS movie they could've flash-forwarded five years with Kirk serving as Pike's relief on the Enterprise.

Dammit- beat me to it.

And count me among the people rolling eyes at Pike appointing Kirk his first officer. C'mon, it's the flagship of the Federation. People work their lives to get a posting like that. Don't try to tell me that they didn't have people ho were qualified to take the spot.

Pike had already showed considerable interesting in Kirk.

And he didn't name Kirk HIS first office, but Spock's first officer.

But, yeah, they easily could've dealt with the early promotion nonsense and just flashed-forward after Spock's talk with..., er... Spock. Had a caption that said "Five Years Later," Kirk is before the SF assembly and the head guy says something like, "Commander Kirk, at this time we acknowledge your exceptional aptitude and prowess in our ranks and we reward you with our earliest comission to an officer of the rank "Captain." Following Captain Pike's delta-radiation accident we order you to report to the USS Enterprise to serve as his relief and promote you to the rank of Captain. Good Luck to you sir, and this council thanks you for all you've done for this planet and the Federation."

Then we can look at Pine's Kirk who'll stand there with a bit more confidence and "captain-ness" expected from Kirk. (Rather than the slightly more boyish stance he had in the rest of the movie.)

 

[T'Bonz]

Romulus gets destroyed, Vulcan gets destroyed...

 

[nx1701g]

Romulus gets destroyed, Vulcan gets destroyed...

I agree with you.

*Thinks he may need to beam out of here... quickly.*

 

[Thor Odinson]

I didn't like that Vulcan and Romulus were destroyed.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As many others have already said: Kirk made Captain too damned quick.

I mean, would it fucking well have killed Orci and Kurtzman to do either of these things:

1) Make it clear that LIEUTENANT Kirk is commanding the Enterprise only until such time as Pike recovers from his injuries and retakes command of the vessel

2) Insert one little text caption, like "Four years later...", before Kirk makes Captain

Seriously, though. You don't just make Captain a week after graduating from the Academy. Not even if you are Kirk. That violates every law of military hierarchy and chain of command that was ever written. It makes zero sense. I mean, what if a very green, inexperienced cadet walks out of his graduation ceremony at Annapolis and runs into Osama bin Laden, whom the cadet promptly strangles to death. Shall we hand this cadet the command of a nuclear aircraft carrier?

I don't care if Kirk just saved the planet. I don't care if he saved the entire universe. You don't make cadets Captains. It just doesn't work that way. Kirk had no experience (the Academy doesn't count, I mean *real* experience on real starship duty), so he does not deserve the position OR rank of captain. Not yet.

 

[nx1701g]

Kirk made Captain too damned quick.

I mean, would it fucking well have killed Orci and Kurtzman to do either of these things:

1) Make it clear that LIEUTENANT Kirk is commanding the Enterprise only until such time as Pike recovers from his injuries and retakes command of the vessel

2) Insert one little text caption, like "Four years later...", before Kirk makes Captain

Seriously, though. You don't just make Captain a week after graduating from the Academy. Not even if you are Kirk. That violates every law of military hierarchy and chain of command that was ever written. It makes zero sense. What, shall we give a green Annapolis graduate the command of a nuclear aircraft carrier?

I thought that they were going by something Roddenberry once said that the ranks implied their positions. Kirk is, in a sense, Starfleet's General Manager for the Enterprise in a sense.

 

[SpocKirk]

Isn't all that training designed to determine if you are Captain material?

So he saves the Federation captaining the Enterprise and they make him... what.. Lutienant?

If you find a Michael Jordan do you keep him in the lower leagues until he has served his apprenticeship?

 

[Seska]

There's no doubt that the losses of Vulcan and of Amanda were the suckiest. And, paying for cocktails. Hated that, too.

As for the promotion bit, I'm surprised so many are vexed by it. In the TOS mirror universe, promotions were handled by assassination. In this mirror universe / alternate timeline / whatev, why wouldn't promotions likewise be handled differently than in Trek Prime?

On top of that, a CATALOG OF REASONS why the promotion made sense in the context of Trek was compiled earlier today by yours truly.

From the Delta Quadrant with Love,
Seska

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I thought that they were going by something Roddenberry once said that the ranks implied their positions. Kirk is, in a sense, Starfleet's General Manager for the Enterprise in a sense.

Forgive me for being blunt, but why should I care what Roddenberry said? He's not the one who made this movie. Rank is rank, after all. Implying otherwise is wishy-washy 60's psychobabble. No military, fictional or real, is run that way. Ranks are there to be USED. You graduate the Academy as an Ensign, then are promoted up through the ranks - Lieutenant JG, Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander, Commander, THEN and only THEN do you get to be Captain.

The only wiggle room I am allowing them in this case is doing what the original series did on that point. Kirk had a field commission as an Ensign while on his cadet cruises. Then after graduation, he was a Lieutenant. That's all the leeway the writers deserve here. Why couldn't they have done that? "Lieutenant Kirk, you are hereby appointed acting commanding officer of this vessel until such time as Admiral Pike is fit to return to duty." Was that so hard to swallow?

 

[SpocKirk]

I thought that they were going by something Roddenberry once said that the ranks implied their positions. Kirk is, in a sense, Starfleet's General Manager for the Enterprise in a sense.

Forgive me for being blunt, but why should I care what Roddenberry said?

Well to be equally blunt it isn't about you, it's whether Abrahams cared what Gene said and deliberately preserved that spirit/tradition for the movie.. you pretty much didn't come into the calculations

 

[Holodoc]

Isn't all that training designed to determine if you are Captain material?

So he saves the Federation captaining the Enterprise and they make him... what.. Lutienant?

If you find a Michael Jordan do you keep him in the lower leagues until he has served his apprenticeship?

What on earth is a basketball apprenticeship?

Anyway. I kind of feel ike the importance of actual, in-the-field training is being dismissed with terrifying ease by those who agree with the way the promotion was handled. Kirk, from all we've seen, hasn't had any kind of practice in authority aside from the Kobyashi Maru incident. Wouldn't it be a good idea, before giving him the flagship and removing any and all on-site oversight, to have him get used to the minutia of running a department or a section? There's more to captaining than just flying around blowing things up; how many times did we see Kirk having to deal with a yeoman bearing paperwork, after all?

 

[smosquito]

I'm new here. Uh. Hi. (Wow, I'm beginning like Nero - that is - terribly)

I'm not going to be apologetic -

I hated the parallel universe thing entirely. Why make a new Star Trek parallel universe? In order to 'punch it up' a bit? To change the show into a comic book? Why not just get writers who weren't responsible for the first 3 seasons of Enterprise; who can write a good action movie without changing the entire basis of Star Trek. That is people who can write a good movie that will be a summer blockbuster without making the franchise into a comic book adapation to please the lowest common denominator. A movie that has big action and explosions and stuff and still has got some moral and psychological depth to it as Star Trek must if it is to be called Star Trek at all? I'm sure it's possible. If it's not forget I said anything. Were all doomed anyway if there isn't at least that amount of creativity out there somewhere. I mean for the love of god people are out there developing photovoltaic paint, and quantum spin transistors. I'm only talking about making a damn movie that doesn't suck and still has half a brain.

I hated the way the new movie was cavalier with Spock's marooning Kirk. Federation officers would never... blah blah blah you know what I am going to say. But you know what I mean. We love the Federation for being so good in the way we usually love villains for being so bad. It's their nature. Spock would never maroon a crewman. Ever. Even if his planet just got eaten by aliens from the future and their red matter black hole... ugh... Terrible.

I hated engineering. Engineering looked like what it was. A waste treatment plant. Not a 23rd century starship. Hellooo?! 'Captain, I can't give you warp drive because there's no antimatter or dilithium or anything spaceship like here... Just crap'. It makes engineering in general look terrible, which is the exact opposite of the intention of TOS, which made engineering look cool enough to interest me and the generation of people who made PC's and cell phones and stuff like that.

On to more minor issues -

I disliked how they couldn't use the TOS ship exterior and bridge. WHY, why not? Both are brilliant and still look futuristic today. Update them suitably - don't trash the whole concept and replace them with what IMO looks markedly inferior.

I disliked that the shuttles and airlocks had grocery store plastic flaps everywhere. What, in case there is a hull breach? Do they help when stocking milk in space?

I really disliked Nero. Really? That's your villain JJ Abrams? That's almost worse than that episode of Voyager where future Kes is the villain.

I disliked personally the destruction of Vulcan. Really? You really blew up Vulcan? Come on.

I disliked McCoy entirely. I dunno. Probably just me.

I dislike Simon Pegg. Something about him screams insincerity in a truly British way that cannot be hidden. It didn't help that he had a ******* Ewok with him. Was a good Scottish actor like say, Robert Carlisle unavailable? Why not cast Ricky Gervais if the only criterion was being able to be not Scottish, and annoyingly unfunny at the same time?

I though the actor playing Chekov couldn't give the role the gravity it deserved. Uh... Yeah. He was that bad.

Annoyances:

Delta Vega - In the Vulcan system, 40 Eridani? Is the galactic barrier going to be moved to 30 light years from Earth? Where will Gary Mitchell... etc...

Spock's ship looked like the one of those hats with a propeller on it, minus common sense. Awful.

On the plus side. The move is fun. People will like it. I did enjoy it. I liked the Kirk and Spock actors. (No I don't know their names). But I would say this to the producers and directors, and since they're not listening, to you. A successful franchise is one which doesn't mess on it's own doorstep. Pay attention to what old skool people like me have said above, and you will find longevity in the star trek franchise. Don't, and you won't.

 

[Overgeeked]

But they're complaining about time travel and other Kirk's unbelievable promotion amongst other things that have all appeared in other movies.

Time travel? Yes, too many times to count.

That promotion has never happened in another movie, or ep (afaik). That is totally unbelievable.

Understandable. But if you're going to show a believable career for Kirk then we're going to have another series of boring movies when a bunch of characters we don't know nor care about.

I believe the cinematic trick that would have worked is this little thing we like to refer to as a montage. Works real good for showing the passage of time where things are happening, like gaining experience or learning.

 

[SpocKirk]

Isn't all that training designed to determine if you are Captain material?

So he saves the Federation captaining the Enterprise and they make him... what.. Lutienant?

If you find a Michael Jordan do you keep him in the lower leagues until he has served his apprenticeship?

What on earth is a basketball apprenticeship?

It's a common saying in sports.. he served his apprenticeship in the minor leagues etc

 

[SpocKirk]

A successful franchise is one which doesn't mess on it's own doorstep. Pay attention to what old skool people like me have said above, and you will find longevity in the star trek franchise. Don't, and you won't.

It was in desperate need of a reboot and what had worked in the past wont cut it these days.. they will preserve the spirit/tradition but absolute accuracy just to appease a few old timers will not happen nor should it

 

[Overgeeked]

Isn't all that training designed to determine if you are Captain material?

So he saves the Federation captaining the Enterprise and they make him... what.. Lutienant?

If you find a Michael Jordan do you keep him in the lower leagues until he has served his apprenticeship?

Bad analogy. Jordan was playing basketball his whole life. Played in high school. Played in college. Then was drafted. He worked his ass off, proved himself day after day, in game after game, year after year, then he got to go to the big times.

Assuming Kirk took command school course work at the academy that's 3 years of prep, then he captained the ship for 2 days.

 

[scotthm]

You don't just make Captain a week after graduating from the Academy. Not even if you are Kirk.

A week after graduating? Wasn't Kirk still in a cadet uniform when the keys of the Enterprise were handed over to him? I'm not even sure he'd taken his final exams yet.

a CATALOG OF REASONS why the promotion made sense in the context of Trek was compiled earlier today by yours truly.

Sadly, such reasons seem to make sense to too many people.

It's true that Kirk demonstrated an extreme confidence and resolve, but his capabilities as a team player and effective leader of men wasn't really put to the test. Promotion to captain was not warranted as of the end of the film.

---------------

 

[SpocKirk]

Isn't all that training designed to determine if you are Captain material?

So he saves the Federation captaining the Enterprise and they make him... what.. Lutienant?

If you find a Michael Jordan do you keep him in the lower leagues until he has served his apprenticeship?

Bad analogy. Jordan was playing basketball his whole life. Played in high school. Played in college. Then was drafted. He worked his ass off, proved himself day after day, in game after game, year after year, then he got to go to the big times.

Not at all.. captaincy equates to the big league