Things that don't add up:

[Gonzo]

Or maybe Mamma Burnham was an agent of Future Control. Da da dum..... But we're never told that. Someone had to start Control off on its destructive path.

OK I'm doing a rewatch of TNG and for the love of all things sacred season 1 is rubbish. I just don't know what to make of it and why I liked it when it was brand new.

The thing I don't get is the Ferengi in "the last outpost" they were jumping around and making noises like comical monkeys, which made me think they were only on the show as some kind of comic relief. I just don't know what the writers were thinking with them in the first season.

Like I said a while back its all going to be a loop caused by Burnham doing something stupid not her mother, in every loop there is a seed that starts it and can end it.

Yeah Season 1 of TNG was a bore fest but it did at least get a lot of the boring stuff out of the way and properly establish the characters, which is something Discovery would have been better off doing and keeping all the MU and time travel stuff until later.

I have the same view on Voyager and DS9 Season 1, total bore fests until we got Worf and the Defiant plus more Garak, Quark, Rom and Nog.

Same for all of the Enterprise Seasons except for the last one, the Xindi storyline was rubbish, the Romulan and Vulcan storylines were great but came too late to save the show.

We will probably never see or hear about the Xindi again, I am not sorry about that.

 

[Timo]

Hmm. I have always liked the first seasons best. Each show has the potential to go just about anywhere, and nothing is locked down. The characters may turn out to be utterly different from what the Writers' Bible says, and generally do during the first season already. Daring things may be attempted before it all dwindles down to that which is "affordable", "likely to work", "consistent", "a good step along the story arc". By the fourth season, the characters take over from the plots and it all becomes a soap where the space setting is sort of incidental. And recurring characters and situations make the universe smaller...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Longinus]

The episodic nature makes the early seasons of TNG much more tolerable than these two first seasons of Discovery. Sure, season one of TNG had a lot of bad episodes, and the average quality of the season two wasn't exactly stellar either. Yet there was some good episodes, and when I rewatch TNG watch those and skip the bad ones. But that really doesn't work with a serialised show. Whilst Discovery has compelling characters and some good episodes, the season long main plots of both seasons are frankly nonsensical crap and this results an overall experience which is not particularly enjoyable.

 

[fireproof78]

The episodic nature makes the early seasons of TNG much more tolerable than these two first seasons of Discovery. Sure, season one of TNG had a lot of bad episodes, and the average quality of the season two wasn't exactly stellar either. Yet there was some good episodes, and when I rewatch TNG watch those and skip the bad ones.

What for you are those episodes? Curious, because I simply struggle with getting in to Season 1 or 2, more due to the characters than the specific stories.

 

[Longinus]

What for you are those episodes? Curious, because I simply struggle with getting in to Season 1 or 2, more due to the characters than the specific stories.

I really can't remember every episode. I think Heart of Glory and the Neural Zone are on the first season, as is the the one with the Bynars; all of those are good. There are more good episodes on the second season, the Measure of a Man of course being the highlight, and one of the best episodes in the entire franchise. Of course, if you don't like the characters, none of this might work for you. I liked most of TNG characters from the get go, though they certainly were kinda rough on the edges at first.

 

[Jadeb]

Now and then, I can enjoy an early TNG just for how bad it is. But the novelty of that lasts for 48 minutes or less, not a whole season.

 

[Longinus]

Now and then, I can enjoy an early TNG just for how bad it is. But the novelty of that lasts for 48 minutes or less, not a whole season.

And as it is an episodic show, that's how long it needs to last!

 

[fireproof78]

I really can't remember every episode. I think Heart of Glory and the Neural Zone are on the first season, as is the the one with the Bynars; all of those are good. There are more good episodes on the second season, the Measure of a Man of course being the highlight, and one of the best episodes in the entire franchise. Of course, if you don't like the characters, none of this might work for you. I liked most of TNG characters from the get go, though they certainly were kinda rough on the edges at first.

No, that's fair. It's definitely a character thing for me. I've been trying to get in to TNG again to see if I missed something but Season 1 and its characters are just...well, let's just say I feel no motivation to continue on the journey.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I liked season 2 and 3 of Enterprise, especially season 3. I really got into that and can watch it without skipping episodes. But as they say 'each to their own' and all that.

Voyager for me was a borefest. I struggled to finish the whole series and can't recall any episodes that really stand out for me.

 

[fireproof78]

Voyager for me was a borefest. I struggled to finish the whole series and can't recall any episodes that really stand out for me.

I would recommend giving "Gravity" a try if you are fond of Vulcan characters. I too struggled with VOY and never watched it all the way through. But, as I was reminded, that episode is a stand out Tuvok one.

 

[Jadeb]

No, that's fair. It's definitely a character thing for me. I've been trying to get in to TNG again to see if I missed something but Season 1 and its characters are just...well, let's just say I feel no motivation to continue on the journey.

I like TNG, but I've never really viewed the characters with the fondness I have for the TOS crew.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

OK that episode "The Neutral Zone"

1. The smugness of the crew shits me off and I want to airlock everyone.
2. So why did 21st Century people freeze themselves onboard a satellite of all things? That's just silly.
3. How did this satellite the SS Birdseye (eyeroll name) drift into the neutral zone without engines, let alone no warp drive? Just how did that happen, or did I miss a plot point.

Overall that episode while had good moments it shit me off.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

How did this satellite the SS Birdseye (eyeroll name) drift into the neutral zone without engines, let alone no warp drive? Just how did that happen, or did I miss a plot point.

Maybe the Neutral Zone begins in the Kuiper Belt?

 

[Jadeb]

2. So why did 21st Century people freeze themselves onboard a satellite of all things? That's just silly.
3. How did this satellite the SS Birdseye (eyeroll name) drift into the neutral zone without engines, let alone no warp drive? Just how did that happen, or did I miss a plot point.

Overall that episode while had good moments it shit me off.

Burnham’s mom. Probably practicing for moving that church.

 

[DaveyNY]

Maybe the Neutral Zone begins in the Kuiper Belt?

I blame the Ferengies...
As far as I can remember, it was never established that the satellite was actually meant to just be in Earth's orbit.
It could have been sent off into the stars, in hopes that some more advanced society would find it and have the necessary medical knowledge to revive its occupants.
Perhaps somewhere along the way a Ferengi ship found it and after scooping it up, did not see any value in dead Hu-mons, and just tossed it out their shuttlebay while passing near the Fed-Rom Neutral Zone.
(which they probably just ignore, as Trading/Raiding on both sides would be most profitable)



As far as 20th Century folks having themselves frozen, remember Sonny did it on a whim just because he had the fortune to do so.
Mr.Offenhouse did it as an investment with his fortunes because he wasn't ready to be permanently dead yet.
And Clare's husband did it to her out of his everlasting love for her.

The whole thing was apparently a fools attempt on Offenhouses' part to be immortal and the other folks just happen to benefit from his EGO and wealth.
(though Clare probably is the least likely to have even wanted to)

 

[Timo]

2. So why did 21st Century people freeze themselves onboard a satellite of all things? That's just silly.

They actually said out loud it was a scheme to avoid blackouts that'd melt the corpses - endless solar energy out in space, outside the reach of weather or vandals.

3. How did this satellite the SS Birdseye (eyeroll name) drift into the neutral zone without engines, let alone no warp drive? Just how did that happen, or did I miss a plot point.

Nothing was said, nothing was speculated. But Earth was subject to endless alien abductions before it made first contact with the civilized world. We have plenty of options to choose from, the leading candidates being "what they used to call a black hole", as with Voyager 6, or that graviton ellipse thing, as with Ares IV, or then a prank by sapients (yes, Gabrielle B is very much an option there).

It's not as if the sat was in the Romulan Neutral Zone, though - it was discovered when the heroes were waiting for Picard's shuttle from SB 718, and them not flying to SB 718 themselves in the E-D suggests the shuttle trip was trivially short. OTOH, the sat was gonna drift to "the Kazis binary system" in less than geological times, so possibly SB 718 was in or near that system and said system moreover was likely to fry primitive spacecraft without any particular need for precision. Might even be the two things were connected, and something about the Kazis system made shuttlecraft access preferable to starship visits...

In any case, it then took the heroes quite a bit of warping to actually reach the RNZ.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

All good points but how many years would that satellite have taken to drift to where it was. I just can't see it being where our heroes found it unless it had external help via an alien or some weird anomaly.

 

[fireproof78]

All good points but how many years would that satellite have taken to drift to where it was. I just can't see it being where our heroes found it unless it had external help via an alien or some weird anomaly.

Yes, but that would require a fanon explanation. As we know from Discovery fanon explanations are not allowed

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Yes, but that would require a fanon explanation. As we know from Discovery fanon explanations are not allowed

It's not that they are not allowed, it's that some of the fans won't allow them