They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the movie

[Agent Richard07]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Old Kirk could have appeared during the mind meld in the first movie. It would have been brief but memorable.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Old Kirk could have appeared during the mind meld in the first movie. It would have been brief but memorable.

i was expecting Picard to be in that scene first time i saw it

as for shatner i was half expecting something to be revealed when Kirk and Spock beamed over to the Narada (where they were basically going into the ‘Prime Universe’ and messing about with Next Generation/Prime stuff) - maybe when nuKirk is searching for Pike he sees a holo image of TWOK Shat Kirk on neros computer consol (Nero checking up on his adversary/brushing up on starfleet history from Spocks ship like in ‘Countdown‘– who Kirk is/what his thinking is like etc. it would’ve vaguely tied in with Kirk saying earlier that Nero would know what they were up to as they were part of his history so lets be unpredictable )

just a throwaway thing – kirk would catch a fleeting glimpse of his alternate future before he gets his ass kicked

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Old Kirk could have appeared during the mind meld in the first movie. It would have been brief but memorable.

The problem is, that would have called attention to the recasting, like including a clip of Sean Connery in Casino Royale. Or including a clip of Katie Holmes in The Dark Knight.

They got away with including Quinto and Nimoy in the same movie because the age differential was so extreme (Young Spock and Ancient Spock) that you could pretend that they were the same character, separated by a long lifetime of experience. But a shot of Shatner might strain our suspension of disbelief . . . .

The conceit, remember, is that Kirk has always looked like actor currently playing him--which is why Old Spock recognizes him on sight.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

The movies are already riddled with nods and call backs to the original shows and films, I think it's best to just move on. I suppose I'm just immune to fan pandering after the last two Star Wars prequels had George trying to appease to older fans by throwing in a bunch of pointless references "Hey look, it's Chewbaca, you remember Chewbaca, right? In those better films? Weren't they great? Isn't this film great?".

I had the same problem with The Hobbit. The camera would linger on characters from Lord of the Rings, with their familiar music cues, telling the audience, "Hey, remember THEM? Yeah, they're BACK!" Except, chronologically, this is supposed to be the first time we meet these characters.

Frankly, this is my problem with many prequels* in general, in that they require knowledge of previous movies to work, rather than as stand alones that just happen to play with another movie's building blocks.

*Not talking about the Abrams Trek films, though. They're not prequels.

 

[R. Star]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

No... just no. If NuTrek is supposed to be it's own thing.... let it be it's own thing and stop trying back to the "prime" universe at every conceivable opportunity.

 

[ralph]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Shatner doesn´t want to make other character in Star Trek, except Kirk.
Bill could be a distant relative of Kirk, a merchant. Not Mudd, of course.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

The movies are already riddled with nods and call backs to the original shows and films, I think it's best to just move on. I suppose I'm just immune to fan pandering after the last two Star Wars prequels had George trying to appease to older fans by throwing in a bunch of pointless references "Hey look, it's Chewbaca, you remember Chewbaca, right? In those better films? Weren't they great? Isn't this film great?".

I had the same problem with The Hobbit. The camera would linger on characters from Lord of the Rings, with their familiar music cues, telling the audience, "Hey, remember THEM? Yeah, they're BACK!" Except, chronologically, this is supposed to be the first time we meet these characters.

Frankly, this is my problem with many prequels* in general, in that they require knowledge of previous movies to work, rather than as stand alones that just happen to play with another movie's building blocks.

*Not talking about the Abrams Trek films, though. They're not prequels.

nuTrek hasn't stooped that low, but I feel that references as such is cut from the same cloth and I find it more annoying than a wink as film makers intended. Berman thought throwing in Riker and Troi would be a delight for fans, but we saw how that turned out. I feel the same about a Shatner cameo, especially when Chris Pine is trying to put his own stamp on Kirk. If there has to be callbacks, I'd prefer it to be restricted to this new timeline.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

But how many curtain calls does he need? He's already taken his final bows twice--in TUC and Generations. That's probably enough.

And space shuttle Discovery.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Old Kirk could have appeared during the mind meld in the first movie. It would have been brief but memorable.

The problem is, that would have called attention to the recasting, like including a clip of Sean Connery in Casino Royale. Or including a clip of Katie Holmes in The Dark Knight.

They got away with including Quinto and Nimoy in the same movie because the age differential was so extreme (Young Spock and Ancient Spock) that you could pretend that they were the same character, separated by a long lifetime of experience. But a shot of Shatner might strain our suspension of disbelief . . . .

I don't like recasting either but I make certain allowances if a different actor plays a much older or much younger version of a character and if the two look alike for the most part. In the case of Shatner and Pine, they're similar enough and the age gap is big enough that I could have accepted seeing them in the same movie.

As for the Connery and Craig scenario you mentioned, that would have been too jarring since the two don't look alike and play significantly different versions of the character in different eras. And if Holmes were to appear in a shot in The Dark Knight, that would have been even more so because it would constitute blatant recasting and there's no age issue.

Point is, if they did want to include Shatner in the first movie, I can't think of a better opportunity than that mind meld. Someone else actually brought it up years ago I liked it. I think something like that would have worked a lot better than having an actual scene with an older Kirk.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

The movies are already riddled with nods and call backs to the original shows and films, I think it's best to just move on. I suppose I'm just immune to fan pandering after the last two Star Wars prequels had George trying to appease to older fans by throwing in a bunch of pointless references "Hey look, it's Chewbaca, you remember Chewbaca, right? In those better films? Weren't they great? Isn't this film great?".

I had the same problem with The Hobbit. The camera would linger on characters from Lord of the Rings, with their familiar music cues, telling the audience, "Hey, remember THEM? Yeah, they're BACK!" Except, chronologically, this is supposed to be the first time we meet these characters.

Frankly, this is my problem with many prequels* in general, in that they require knowledge of previous movies to work, rather than as stand alones that just happen to play with another movie's building blocks.

*Not talking about the Abrams Trek films, though. They're not prequels.

nuTrek hasn't stooped that low, but I feel that references as such is cut from the same cloth and I find it more annoying than a wink as film makers intended. Berman thought throwing in Riker and Troi would be a delight for fans, but we saw how that turned out. I feel the same about a Shatner cameo, especially when Chris Pine is trying to put his own stamp on Kirk. If there has to be callbacks, I'd prefer it to be restricted to this new timeline.

Agreed, especially since the powers that be are trying their best to make us like the current cast (which is redundant because they've won us over). I thought Nimoy's role in XI worked, but it was already a stretch -- Into Darkness was just superfluous.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Old Kirk could have appeared during the mind meld in the first movie. It would have been brief but memorable.

The problem is, that would have called attention to the recasting, like including a clip of Sean Connery in Casino Royale. Or including a clip of Katie Holmes in The Dark Knight.

They got away with including Quinto and Nimoy in the same movie because the age differential was so extreme (Young Spock and Ancient Spock) that you could pretend that they were the same character, separated by a long lifetime of experience. But a shot of Shatner might strain our suspension of disbelief . . . .

I don't like recasting either but I make certain allowances if a different actor plays a much older or much younger version of a character and if the two look alike for the most part. In the case of Shatner and Pine, they're similar enough and the age gap is big enough that I could have accepted seeing them in the same movie..

Just to be clear, I have no problem with recasting, which is a long and honorable tradition in movies and television. I was just pointing out the structural difficulty of incorporating images of the previous actor in a film featuring the new one.

Recasting is fine as long we all accept the conceit that, say, Jim Rhodes always looked like Don Cheadle, or that Darren Stevens always looked like Dick Sargent. But you probably don't want to shatter that illusion by reminding the viewer that, hey, this is what the other guy looked like, remember him?

 

[Galileo7]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

I think new audiences probably wouldn't care either way. But old timers would enjoy seeing a tie in from the old universe. Sort of like a nod to them.

Spock prime was totally unnecessary in the second film, but I thought he worked well in the first one.

Would have been interesting to have Shatner in the second movie as something. Maybe Kirk's grandfather? Heck I don't know? I would have appreciated it.

Agree on all thoughts here.

 

[mymatty]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

They wrote an ending for the 2009 film that included a cameo for William Shatner, but he didn't want to be in the movie if it wasn't for a major role. Here it is:

ALTERNATE SCENE B

SPOCK PRIME
Then I ask that you do yourself a
favor… put away logic, and do what
feels right. The world you’ve inherited
lives in the shadow of incalculable
devastation… but there’s no reason you
must face it alone.

And from around his neck, he removes the PENDANT that
until now, we’ve only caught glimpses of. Places it on
the table beside his younger self. The feeling in his
eyes is profound…

SPOCK PRIME (CONT’D)
This was a gift to me. Representing…
a dream. One we were unable to fulfill.
(softly)
The way you can now.

And moves to the door. Stops. Offers the VULCAN SALUTE:

SPOCK PRIME (CONT’D)
As my customary farewell would appear
oddly self serving, I will simply say…
good luck.

Their eyes hold. Spock turns, disappearing into the
corridor. Young Spock stares at the empty doorway a
beat, his mind a jumble of thoughts. Looks to the
pendant… and realizes it’s a HOLO-EMITTER. After
considering a beat, he hits an activation button and a
MOVING HOLOGRAPHIC MESSAGE materializes before him:

CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK. WILLIAM SHATNER. As always,
brash, wry, confident — and SINGING:

KIRK/ SHATNER
Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to
you…
(stops, grins)
I know I know, it’s illogical to
celebrate something you had nothing to do
with, but I haven’t had the chance to
congratulate you on your appointment to
the ambassadorship so I thought I’d seize
the occasion… Bravo, Spock — they tell
me your first mission may take you away
for awhile, so I’ll be the first to wish
you luck… and to say…
(beat, emotional)
I miss you, old friend.

… and we’re PUSHING IN on Young Spock, taking in the
image of Kirk’s future self, the message, but above all —
the clear, unquestionable friendship these two men had…

INT. CORRIDOR – CONTINUOUS

As Spock Prime walks off down the corridor, he passes
right by a man conferring with a nurse — the man pauses,
turns… it’s SAREK. Suddenly overcome by a feeling that
the stranger who’s just passed him is… oddly familiar.

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I suppose I’d always imagined us…
outgrowing Starfleet together. Watching
life swing us into our Emeritus years…

INT. STARBASE ONE – HANGAR – ETERNAL NIGHT

MUSIC BUILDING — glass walls reveal THE ENTERPRISE at
dock, UTILITY CRAFTS floating around it, repairing.
Standing at attention in rows, THE ENTERPRISE CREW —
over four hundred of them wearing DRESS UNIFORMS — TRACK
DOWN the faces, all proud:

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I look around at the new cadets now and
can’t help thinking… has it really been
so long? Wasn’t it only yesterday we
stepped onto the Enterprise as boys?
That I had to prove to the crew I
deserved command… and their respect?

And we STOP ON YOUNG KIRK. Composed, focused, proud. A
man. And to every fan’s delight, finally wearing his
YELLOW SHIRT. The FEDERATION COMMANDANT stands at a
podium:

COMMANDANT
This assembly calls Captain James
Tiberius Kirk…

Kirk breaks from formation, pivots, marches down the
hangar — past UHURA… SULU… CHEKOV… SCOTTY. All
Beaming. Notably absent, is Spock. Kirk ascends the
stairs, snaps to attention:

COMMANDANT (CONT’D)
Your inspirational valor and supreme
dedication to your comrades are in
keeping with the highest traditions of
service and reflect utmost credit to
yourself, your crew, and the Federation.
By Starfleet Order 28455, you are hereby
directed to report to Commanding Officer,
USS Enterprise, for duty as his relief.

Kirk turns. Walks to… PIKE. In a wheelchair now,
wearing an ADMIRAL’S UNIFORM. Overnight, his hair’s
turned totally grey — but despite his trauma, his
pride’s overwhelming. They SALUTE each other:

KIRK
I relieve you, Sir.


PIKE
… I am relieved.

He opens a BOX in his lap — glorious in repose, a MEDAL:

PIKE (CONT’D)
And as Fleet Admiral, for your… unique
solution to the Kobayashi Maru, it’s my
honor to award you with a commendation
for original thinking.

Pike containing a smirk, pins the medal to Kirk’s
chest…

PIKE (CONT’D)
(a touch choked)
Congratulations, Captain.

KIRK
Thank you, Sir.

Kirk turns to the crowd. Eyes shining. WILD APPLAUSE.
OUR MUSIC SOARS. Bones leans in to Sulu, rolling his
eyes:

BONES
… Same ship, different day.

As Kirk rejoins his crew for hugs and congratulations, we
go to the BACK of the hangar… SPOCK PRIME. Watching.
Moved beyond words. He turns and leaves them to it… as
he goes…

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I know what you’d say — ‘It’s their turn
now, Jim…’ And of course you’re
right… but it got me thinking:

INT. STARFLEET HOSPITAL – EARTH – DAY

Our montage comes full circle as we END on Kirk’s
transmission:

KIRK/SHATNER
Who’s to say we can’t go one more round?
By the last tally, only twenty five
percent of the galaxy’s been chartered…
I’d call that negligent. Criminal even —
an invitation. You once said being a
starship captain was my first, best
destiny… if that’s true, then yours is
to be by my side. If there’s any true
logic to the universe… we’ll end up on
that bridge again someday.

Stops, grins. Because this is the part he needs to say
most…

KIRK/SHATNER
Admit it, Spock. For people like us, the
journey itself… is home.

Young Spock’s face. Lost in feelings that flood through
him.

http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/23/read-the-star-trek-2009-scene-written-for-william-shatner/

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

The problem is, that would have called attention to the recasting, like including a clip of Sean Connery in Casino Royale. Or including a clip of Katie Holmes in The Dark Knight.

They got away with including Quinto and Nimoy in the same movie because the age differential was so extreme (Young Spock and Ancient Spock) that you could pretend that they were the same character, separated by a long lifetime of experience. But a shot of Shatner might strain our suspension of disbelief . . . .

I don't like recasting either but I make certain allowances if a different actor plays a much older or much younger version of a character and if the two look alike for the most part. In the case of Shatner and Pine, they're similar enough and the age gap is big enough that I could have accepted seeing them in the same movie..

Just to be clear, I have no problem with recasting, which is a long and honorable tradition in movies and television. I was just pointing out the structural difficulty of incorporating images of the previous actor in a film featuring the new one.

Recasting is fine as long we all accept the conceit that, say, Jim Rhodes always looked like Don Cheadle, or that Darren Stevens always looked like Dick Sargent. But you probably don't want to shatter that illusion by reminding the viewer that, hey, this is what the other guy looked like, remember him?

This post reminds me of the TV Trope page on this matter

 

[OpenMaw]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

They wrote an ending for the 2009 film that included a cameo for William Shatner, but he didn't want to be in the movie if it wasn't for a major role. Here it is:

- snip -

http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/23/read-the-star-trek-2009-scene-written-for-william-shatner/

That was beautiful. I feel somewhat cheated!

 

[Agent Richard07]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

With Back to the Future, you could argue that changes to the timeline resulted in his girlfriend looking different. The only thing you'd have to ignore is the reshot scene.

Recasting is fine as long we all accept the conceit that, say, Jim Rhodes always looked like Don Cheadle, or that Darren Stevens always looked like Dick Sargent.

Now that's the kind of recasting that bugs me.

But you probably don't want to shatter that illusion by reminding the viewer that, hey, this is what the other guy looked like, remember him?

Fair enough.

http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/23/read-the-star-trek-2009-scene-written-for-william-shatner/

I heard about that end scene. Sounds better than I thought it would be. And I thought that Shatner turned it down but the article states that they didn't even ask him because they heard that he didn't do cameos.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

no ones digs my Deadly Years re-imagined opening?

 

[Ovation]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

I found it amusing and wouldn't mind seeing it but I consider it unlikely as I doubt they'd want to make the Romulan presence, if there is one at all, that minor. But as Shatner will not be in the next film, the point is moot.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

They wrote an ending for the 2009 film that included a cameo for William Shatner, but he didn't want to be in the movie if it wasn't for a major role. Here it is:

- snip -

http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/23/read-the-star-trek-2009-scene-written-for-william-shatner/

That was beautiful. I feel somewhat cheated!

Wow. I doubt it would have quelled the uproar over the 2009 movie, but it addressed Kirk's rapid ascendancy to captain (Kirk Prime: Do I have to prove to the crew that I deserve their respect?), really put a cap on the theme of a new journey, and it evokes the amazing intro about birth and life -- It would have been neat to see baby Kirk at the beginning and then "Emeritus Years" Kirk (great line, by the way) at the end.

One pet peeve of mine was that we didn't see the ramifications of the Kobayashi Maru test and Kirk's commendation. That ending would have shown it.

Also, it's neat to note that that means Spock got his ambassadorship after TUC, but I suppose that makes sense for it to be part of the aftermath of that movie, but before Generations.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Eh, the whole destiny angle would have been my biggest gripe of that cameo. That Young Spock and Kirk only become friends because Future Spock tells them both its their destiny to be friends, rather than having the two young characters actually discover that together through their adventures.