• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Theory & revisions re: Kirk's rapid promotion(s) [3 merged]

Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

You see it as crappy writing. I see it as an opportunity to fire up my imagination. :D

J.
Or an ENT style missed opportunity ;) Personally I would have loved to have seen more of Jim Kirk the LT, or Jim Kirk the Lt Commander. The man before he got he chair. How he actualy worked towards becoming captain as opposed to him getting a lucky break
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

You see it as crappy writing. I see it as an opportunity to fire up my imagination. :D

J.
Or an ENT style missed opportunity ;) Personally I would have loved to have seen more of Jim Kirk the LT, or Jim Kirk the Lt Commander. The man before he got he chair. How he actualy worked towards becoming captain as opposed to him getting a lucky break

I would have liked that, too. I honestly don't think Kirk needed to get command at the end of this movie. I would have loved to see more adventures of this young crew under the command of Christopher Pike.
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

You see it as crappy writing. I see it as an opportunity to fire up my imagination. :D

J.
Or an ENT style missed opportunity ;) Personally I would have loved to have seen more of Jim Kirk the LT, or Jim Kirk the Lt Commander. The man before he got he chair. How he actualy worked towards becoming captain as opposed to him getting a lucky break

I would have liked that, too. I honestly don't think Kirk needed to get command at the end of this movie. I would have loved to see more adventures of this young crew under the command of Christopher Pike.

I would have liked that, too. Hell, I just want more Christopher Pike!


J.
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

I definitely hope they keep him around for the next movie.
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

No, Pike saw in him his father, thats why he made him first officer. Next to Spock, Kirk was the only other capable person to take the reigns in an emergency.

The ship was just launched and full of inexperienced cadets.

Kirk showed initiative from day one. Thats how he jump rank.
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

You see it as crappy writing. I see it as an opportunity to fire up my imagination. :D

J.
Or an ENT style missed opportunity ;) Personally I would have loved to have seen more of Jim Kirk the LT, or Jim Kirk the Lt Commander. The man before he got he chair. How he actualy worked towards becoming captain as opposed to him getting a lucky break

I think this is one of the differentiating factors between Star Trek and Nu Trek. The original was made by people without the sense of entitlement people have now; people who were raised during an era in which hard work yielded its own reward.

Most of the masses to which Nu Trek speaks would never understand the concept of working for something over a sustained period. And since most people are waiting for their own lucky break, it's natural that their movie would cater to their fantasy.
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

I think this is one of the differentiating factors between Star Trek and Nu Trek. The original was made by people without the sense of entitlement people have now; people who were raised during an era in which hard work yielded its own reward.

Most of the masses to which Nu Trek speaks would never understand the concept of working for something over a sustained period. And since most people are waiting for their own lucky break, it's natural that their movie would cater to their fantasy.

Did you miss the references of high performance levels?

Also, Star Trek has established, long ago, that intuition is highly valued and especially so in a starship captain. It's appareent that Pike not only relied on his intuition, but that he had very good intuition.

This is 200 years in the future. Things change.

Do you think the modern military operates as it did in 1809?
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

Just as an aside for some who wondered earlier: in the novelization of the award and promotion scene, the commendation is indeed for "original thinking" in the Kobayashi Maru test.
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

The on-screen evidence doesn't support it, but in my personal fantasy where the screenwriters let me edit their work, that's pretty much what I would have suggested. The only drawback being, it lacks the impact of seeing Kirk as a cadet, the actual "beginning" for him.

As for the promotion, I've made my peace with it. None of the ranks seem tied to experience: Uhura graduates as a Lieutenant, Chekov as an Ensign. If Starfleet is an organization where talented wunderkinds can graduate at 17, then it's ranking system uses no resemblance to any traditional military organization. Let's just call it a meritocracy, and be done with it.

I believe it is a meritocracy, but a distinctive one, where cases like Kirk, Uhura and Chekov are not common at all. There is obviously some military discipline, but the structure is definitely different.

My best friend who was in the military for 8 years (he left as a Chief Petty Officer) told me that he was okay with the promotion (we saw the movie last night, him for the first time). He figured that Starfleet was a different type of military structure, and that 200 years ago our military was different than it is now in merit and ranking, so no doubt 200 years from now there will be some changes. He kind of liked the idea, except that he figured Captaincy should be (in his words) "a bitch to get", but figured Kirk had earned it from everything he had done. I agreed with his assessment.

J.

Even it is a different military and has a different promotion system it all comes down to this.. experience.

Kirk clearly has the chops to one day get a command on his own but not so soon after he graduates academy even if he saved the Federation and all the kittens in it.

It is one thing to be top notch at the academy but reality is quite a different thing. Take the Kobayashi Maru test.. they all act calm and professional because they all know it's a simulation and they can't die. Put these same cadets live into space and into a similar situation (where they however might have a chance to accomplish the mission and live to tell about it) and i wouldn"t blame them if half would lose their head and make mistakes.

It's one thing to learn in an controlled environment with someone looking over your shoulder but an entire different thing when you have left the nest.

Just leading away teams on combat missions to kick some enemy ass is not the entire spectrum of a Starfleet captain"s duty.. what about First Contacts? Kirk certainly knows all the regulations and procedures but what if he encounters something unique?
How about being responsible for other careers? Would you trust a young Kirk to be objective when he has to assess the the career of a young, gorgeous looking woman?

This is my core problem.. it's not that Kirk doesn"t have it.. he's in the top percentage of the academy and has demonstrated that he can cut it in crisis situations but that doesn't mean he should get the responsibility for several hundred people and a brand new, important starship.

I believe it would have been far more realistic to let Pike keep command of the Enterprise and request Kirk to be his first officer as a special promotion in recognition of Kirks deeds. Spock could still be science officer (2nd officer maybe) and in the next movie have Pike killed or step down and let Kirk assume command and retain it because he saved Starfleet yet again. That would be far more believable and logical stepping stone for one of the most gifted Starfleet commanders that organization ever had.
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

The pointlessness of this thread is overwhelming. Why is everybody arguing about the possibility of different rank/promotion structures in a fantasy environment. Are ye all suggesting that current military systems may be different in the 23rd century when our interplanetary peace keeping force has a fleet of faster than light enabled wessels crewed by races from over 100 planets?
It's all made up you know ;)
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

It is one thing to be top notch at the academy but reality is quite a different thing.

Reality? QED on my last post.

Also your signature quotes Pike incorrectly :eek:
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

Why did he get promoted to Captain by the end of the movie? Because this is Star Trek and he's JAMES- FREAKING- KIRK!!!!:evil: What other "reason(s)" do you need?
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

It is one thing to be top notch at the academy but reality is quite a different thing.

Reality? QED on my last post.

Also your signature quotes Pike incorrectly :eek:

So you might as well abandaon all SF movie or novel themed boards because it's all fiction and therefore no discussion necessary.

And what's wrong with my quote? I saw the movie just yesterday and i believe it's correct.. please point out the mistake.
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

Why did he get promoted to Captain by the end of the movie? Because this is Star Trek and he's JAMES- FREAKING- KIRK!!!!:evil: What other "reason(s)" do you need?

Someone else who gets it!

Well stated! :techman:

Best post on this board yet!
 
Re: Cadet Kirk - first time in Starfleet? (Spoilers)

It is one thing to be top notch at the academy but reality is quite a different thing.

Reality? QED on my last post.

Also your signature quotes Pike incorrectly :eek:

So you might as well abandaon all SF movie or novel themed boards because it's all fiction and therefore no discussion necessary.

And what's wrong with my quote? I saw the movie just yesterday and i believe it's correct.. please point out the mistake.

I'm not saying that, maybe it came accross wrong.Some people are wording their posts in a "This is what the universe will be like in 200 years" kind of way. That's what i'm suggesting isn't very real.

Also I could be wrong but I think it's Your father was captain of a starship for 12 minutes... The rest is right
 
Kirk Cadet to Captain in one easy step? - My Theories (minor spoilers)

The one element of the Trek movie, which I had quite a problem with, though the rest of the film was awesome, was that Kirk apparently became captain of the flagship over other, more experienced officers. Not very viable, even if the fleet had suffered some losses at the hands of Nero. So, I have a few ideas how the film-makers/novelists/comic writers could explain away this discrepency. Sorry if some of these have been proposed by others in the past; I am fairly new to this discussion board, so I haven't read all the threads, and don't mean to step on any toes if an idea was already proposed...:)

(I entered one of these ideas on the psiphi.org site under the psydonym "Sheena Jungle Queen", but didn't get much response yet) - I'm sure none of these ideas are unique, and I know we aren't supposed to pitch story ideas, but if any novel or comic/film writer, etc who sees this and likes any of the ideas are welcome to use them, since I certainly don't plan on writing any trek lit:

a) Kirk served in Starfleet prior to the bar scene at the beginning of the film. He may have gone to the academy from say 2249 to 2253 (we can see from Chekov's age that it is possible to become an academy student while still a teenager, if gifted), then served for about a year or so as a lieutenant. Something happened, and Kirk was drummed out or left the fleet, and returned home to Iowa, where he started getting into trouble (a la the bar scene). Captain Pike, a recruiter from the academy, reviewed Kirk's file, realized it was a mistake for the kid to leave starfleet, and went to Iowa to recruit him back in. However, what we are seeing is Pike asking Kirk to "join Starfleet", but he is actually recruiting Kirk into a special graduate program for cadets with command potential, like the program in the video game "Starfleet Academy". It is a graduate program that lasts three years. McCoy, who already has a medical degree, is also taking graduate work at the academy, which is why he graduates as a lieutenant commander, according to the arm bars he wears in the movie. Kirk may also graduate with special command training as a lieutenant commander, which is why Pike selected him as acting first officer during the crisis, when he had only cadets aboard the Enterprise.

b) The fleet diversion in the Laurentian sector was actually a trap laid by Nero to pull most of the fleet away from Vulcan. Once the Starfleet arrived there, some sort of trap destroyed the majority of the fleet, leaving Starfleet severely short staffed on command personnel.

c) The last scene of the movie, where Kirk, in a cadet uniform and Pike in a wheelchair, actually happens several years after the incident. It is five years since the "Nero incident", and to mark the five year anniversary, the survivors of the "class of '58" come back to commenorate and remember those cadets killed in the incident. They come dressed in their old cadet uniforms. Kirk, who has been serving as Pike's first officer for the past five years, is given the promotion to captain at this ceremony. Spock, who had elected after the incident to return to the academy to teach, now requests to tranfer back aboard the Enterprise as science officer and first officer, or perhaps he was on this ship the whole time under Pike...

Like I said, these ideas may have already been proposed by people on this board, but I haven't been able to read all the posts. I just thinks any of these three theories might explain the unrealistic promotion of Kirk at the end of the movie ... I mean, he has no diplomatic experience at the end of the film, seems to have little command experience, etc ... why would they give him the flagship of the fleet over other more seasoned officers? Personally, I think theory #3 matches what we saw on film the best...

Opinions/comments?
 
Re: Kirk Cadet to Captain in one easy step? - My Theories (minor spoil

The one element of the Trek movie, which I had quite a problem with, though the rest of the film was awesome, was that Kirk apparently became captain of the flagship over other, more experienced officers. <snip>

Opinions/comments?
Haven't you posted this thread once already, or something very close to it?
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top