TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

[DonIago]

What we may have, then, is a case where, for the general public at least, the series that provides a better story isn't the same thing as the series that provides a better television viewing experience.

Come to that it might be interesting to compare B5 and DS9 on the level of story/character/production values/what-have-you...though I'm sure it's been done and will likely be done again, and may be such a matter of opinion that there's no consensus.

Personally I don't generally care to compare the two, as I feel the difference in approaches to storytelling make them ill-suited for comparison. B5 deserves a lot of credit for executing a story that was in many ways laid-out before the show even aired. Conversely DS9 was in many cases writing a lot more on-the-fly...however, I maintain that in some ways that means DS9 deserves more credit for situations where the story arcs worked well.

Besides: in the end, I enjoyed both of them, so why should I willingly seek to laud one to the detriment of the other?

 

[DalekJim]

DS9 and B5 are two of my absolute favourite TV shows, I just find it fun to compare them as it helps me narrow down what elements in storytelling I prioritise. I love The Gathering and Emissary about equally, for different reasons. The Gathering has the better world-building, atmosphere and intrigue but Emissary has the better plot and character development.

 

[DonIago]

I appreciate what The Gathering sets out to do, and in some cases does, but I have to admit for the most part I find it a bit painful to revisit.

Emissary also has its slow points of course, but, while I guess I'm being lowest-common-denominator here, the opening is still, for my money, one of the best moments of Trek. Sure it doesn't quite hold up to what came later, but at the time we'd never seen anything like that.

 

[DalekJim]

The opening battle was a good hook for new viewers and forgivable because the show never had the Borg appear in a stunt like that again. Also, by having the Borg kill Sisko's wife it meant they had more impact in their DS9 cameo than in the entirety of their run on Voyager.

My favourite parts in Emissary are Sisko's meeting with the Prophets. It's a plotline I dislike in the final season but it's perfectly handled at the beginning. Very smart science-fiction.

 

[Seven of Five]

DS9 and B5 are both very good series, which is the easy way out of that argument.

And you posted your final series-spanning review on my birthday, so that was nice. It's been a fun read all the way.

 

[R. Star]

DS9 and B5 are both very good series, which is the easy way out of that argument.

And you posted your final series-spanning review on my birthday, so that was nice. It's been a fun read all the way.

I tried watching a few season 1 B5 eps a few months back and... it just failed to hook me. I dunno why... the station was interesting and more... rough... so to say, but the cast just fell flat.

I know, everyone says it's better later on and to be fair season 1 of both tng and ds9 fell fairly flat too. Just one of those things, I haven't really gotten into yet.

 

[apenpaap]

I did the same a few months back but gave it the benefit of the doubt and continued watching... And it's really worth it. The characters get much better later on (especially Londo and G'Kar, but the humans too) and especially the story gets better. It's worth grinding through season 1.

 

[DalekJim]

I tried watching a few season 1 B5 eps a few months back and... it just failed to hook me. I dunno why... the station was interesting and more... rough... so to say, but the cast just fell flat.

I really love all the cast apart from Talia Winters who is pretty dull. I think Michael O'Hare as Sinclair gave one of the definitive sci-fi leading man performances, though many dislike his old fashioned style of acting.

I'd definitely recommend you stick with the show. Londo Mollari's arc is among the most powerful drama you'll see on screen. Him and G'Kar are ultimately the reason I'd pick B5 over any Trek.

 

[TheGodBen]

You might have a point there as a fair chunk of my favourite DS9 episodes are standalones whereas none of my favourite B5 episodes are. However, B5 was also a much more serialised show, with S3 and S4 being much, much more serialised than DS9 ever was. B5 was actively trying to show how television could be transformed in to something more literary, whereas DS9 was just a very awesome Star Trek show.

That's all true, and I give B5 a lot of credit for that. But as neozeks said, DS9 had the edge on the craft side of things. The dialogue on B5 was very hit and miss; when it worked it was great and when it was bad it was cringeworthy. DS9 had some terrible dialogue in places, but it generally it came across more naturally as it wasn't trying as hard to be clever. In terms of acting, particularly guest acting, DS9 comes out on top. And DS9 obviously had a bigger budget and could afford greater quality in most areas of production. There are other things I could criticise about B5 on a personal level (technomages being high on that list) but I already did a thread doing that.

But just to be clear, Babylon 5 was a great show, and I particularly loved Londo's character arc. I can completely understand why many people prefer it to DS9.

I tried watching a few season 1 B5 eps a few months back and... it just failed to hook me. I dunno why... the station was interesting and more... rough... so to say, but the cast just fell flat.

I know, everyone says it's better later on and to be fair season 1 of both tng and ds9 fell fairly flat too. Just one of those things, I haven't really gotten into yet.

That seems to be a common story as that's exactly what happened to me the first time I tried to watch it. That's why I started watching B5 as a review thread, because I needed something to force me to keep watching through that rough first season. I'm glad that plan worked.

Did you get to episode 4, Infection? Because that's godawful, it's honestly one of the worst episodes of television I've ever seen, and it's the reason I gave up on the show first time around. If you can survive that episode, you'll survive the rest.

 

[Sindatur]

Yea, Infection is pretty bad, and the "Ultimate Fighting" in TKO didn't sit well with me at first, though the B-story for Ivanova in TKO is a great character piece. Other than that, Grey 17 is Missing (Not a Season 1 episode) the A-Story in Grey 17 is pretty bad, but, the B-Story with Delenn and Neroon is fantastic. Really, those are my only complaints in B5 episode-wise.

I know many people mistake Sinclair's character as poor acting, but, I think he does a fantastic job, playing a man who isn't whole, has Survivor's Guilt and has a hole in his mind.

Of course, I've never understood the "DS9 Season 1 is horrible" complaints either

 

[TheRoyalFamily]

I tried watching a few season 1 B5 eps a few months back and... it just failed to hook me. I dunno why... the station was interesting and more... rough... so to say, but the cast just fell flat.

I know, everyone says it's better later on and to be fair season 1 of both tng and ds9 fell fairly flat too. Just one of those things, I haven't really gotten into yet.

Some would consider this heresy, but I would say just skip season 1, and maybe even season 2. I think I went straight into season 3, and I was able to figure things out just fine. Yah, there's some stuff you lose, but it isn't that bad.

 

[DonIago]

Yeah, I ended up getting into the show in S3 and backtracking later.

There's still S1 episodes I haven't seen and have little interest in seeing even if it means I miss parts of the backstory.

 

[Harvey]

Despite being heavily serialized, one of the virtues of Babylon 5 was its ability to catch up viewers with all the necessary backstory in any given episode. At times, however, this was also one of the show's greatest flaws, since it meant characters frequently informed each other of things they already knew. Expository writing was not JMS' strong suit.