On the other hand, Kelsey Grammer's delivery of Hank McCoy's signature line, "Oh my stars and garters", was pitch pefect.
The X-Men Cinematic Universe (General Discussion)
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Although the finale was too 'busy' with too many antagonist cameos thrown in for the hell of it, I thought the action scenes at the end of TLS were among the best in the franchise and the Beast was note perfect. Ellen Paiges' showdown with Juggernaut was also a highlight.
It does, however, lose major points on plot, on not knowing what to do with Rogue or Phoenix (HELLO?), or Angel, and on screwing us out of the proper capstone to the Phoenix trilogy. I enjoy it though, and I enjoy the Wolverine more for dealing with the aftermath and DoFP all the more for 'rescuing' the timeline.
It does, however, lose major points on plot, on not knowing what to do with Rogue or Phoenix (HELLO?), or Angel, and on screwing us out of the proper capstone to the Phoenix trilogy. I enjoy it though, and I enjoy the Wolverine more for dealing with the aftermath and DoFP all the more for 'rescuing' the timeline.
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^ Speak for yourself re: Phoenix, because I actually like how they approached the realization of that aspect of Jean's character.
He speaks for me, as well. I hated how they handled Jean/Phoenix.
I think if Phoenix had been handled well, X3 would have a lot better reputation. I don't think its a terrible movie anyway (I consider Origins to be the only outright bad X-men movie), but the Phoenix story in X3 was just terrible. Even with its other flaws, if it had done the Phoenix story better I don't think it would be considered a bad movie by so many.
^There is a lot of truth to that. Especially since Singer really had set things up for the Dark Phoenix story rather well in the first two movies, only for all of that to be jettisoned for X3.
The Dark Phoenix plotting is poor, I agree, but I'm more bothered by the crappy handling of many of the characters, both old and new. While the inclusion of Beast and Shadowcat (as well as Grammer and Page) are excellent, and Wolverine and Magneto come off pretty well, most are treated rather pathetically, particularly Rogue and Angel. A bad case of too many balls in the air without the ability to properly present all of them (especially when compared to Civil War).
Wow a lot of discussions i gots to catch up on. The only prob. With x3 was the lack of more runtime for more character moments. It was a good movie but following behind x2 (can we say going from khan to search?) It was treated unfair. I do remember when it came out coworkers and i were saying how good it was but too short. We couldnt understand all the hate it got. The casting of beast and kitty were perfect. Juggernaut couldve been a little better and angel was a waste. Colossus was underused too. I have a friend at work who hates the x films but said x3 was good. Haha go figure.
I heard the next film singer wants to go in space. Phoneix saga? Too soon f that!! We needs another film to care about jean before she goes to the dark side. I say either fall of the mutants storyline r inferno. Then the dark Phoenix saga. Way too soon f that.
I heard the next film singer wants to go in space. Phoneix saga? Too soon f that!! We needs another film to care about jean before she goes to the dark side. I say either fall of the mutants storyline r inferno. Then the dark Phoenix saga. Way too soon f that.
Yes tosk i see ur point on that. It couldve been handled better with more runtime and more character development. X3 was decent watched behind the first 2. But it could've been so much more.
Absolutely. It's not a disaster, but I do find it drops the ball several times. For me it's one of those films where the parts are stronger than the whole.
X3 was a kick ass summer popcorn flick. Its only as good after watching the first 2 films. If only singer had stayed on to do x3 and x4...
But than again we wouldnt have had no DOFP. So it all works out. I can see why singer might want to jump in space and do his take on the Phoenix /dark Phoenix saga. But i feels with this younger cast he needs to do one more film before that. To get us all invested in these characters before the big bang.
What i would love to see is an inferno adaptation. I know fox has the rights to the xmen and not the other marvel properties but wouldnt it be cool to have small references in the other films about the whole inferno saga? Even if its just a quick mention or seeing a demon in the new york during antman? I was a huge spidey comic fan back in the day. I do remember getting into xmen because of the inferno crossovers. Very good stuff. Before dark Phoenix they needs to do something with mr. Sinister.
But than again we wouldnt have had no DOFP. So it all works out. I can see why singer might want to jump in space and do his take on the Phoenix /dark Phoenix saga. But i feels with this younger cast he needs to do one more film before that. To get us all invested in these characters before the big bang.
What i would love to see is an inferno adaptation. I know fox has the rights to the xmen and not the other marvel properties but wouldnt it be cool to have small references in the other films about the whole inferno saga? Even if its just a quick mention or seeing a demon in the new york during antman? I was a huge spidey comic fan back in the day. I do remember getting into xmen because of the inferno crossovers. Very good stuff. Before dark Phoenix they needs to do something with mr. Sinister.
My preference would have been the marauders massacre followed by apocalypse and his horsemen followed by cable. This would have given angel a fairer crack at his most iconic story. I suppose you can bung in a Jean clone if you like.
Since apocalypse comes first now, I suppose they could still follow up with jeans death and a dark phoenix clone to produce cable? Still there are lots of iconic stories they could go for I guess. Sinister taking the role of mastermind in a new dark phoenix story could work, although given the changes to the timeline, Jason Stryker could now still be out there.
Since apocalypse comes first now, I suppose they could still follow up with jeans death and a dark phoenix clone to produce cable? Still there are lots of iconic stories they could go for I guess. Sinister taking the role of mastermind in a new dark phoenix story could work, although given the changes to the timeline, Jason Stryker could now still be out there.
Lets up they use some more classic xmen stories rather than rehashing weopon x and the dark phoenix storylines over and over again.
I suppose Professor X could use a different tactic to help Jean embrace her dark side that leads to his own descent into madness. I would have loved a Kitty Pryde and Wolverine story with Hugh and Ellen. The Shi'ar story just sounds like Fox trying to capitalise on Guardians but it's a trippy plot. Given Jean's power level wasn't all that in X3 (they tweaked the plot so Magneto did the heavy lifting for some odd reason), it's hard to see why the Shi'ar would bother with Phoenix.
I dont mind them redoing a better Phoenix film. But they should do one more x film (hopefully with avory and fassbender) before they tackle that storyline again full force. Maybe do something useful with some of the xmen which have been underused lately. Who knows fox might tie in the deadpool sequel to the next x film. Maybe set up cable and then leave some stuff to be resolved in the next x film? Who knows.
For me, the major (but, by no means only) flaw of X3's version of the Dark Phoenix was that they bypassed the straight up, non-dark Phoenix that seemed to be teased at the end of X2. If you're going to show a character's downfall, you really need to earn it first.
Also, going the M'Kraan Crystal/Shi'ar route helps distinguish this from the previous attempt while at the same time helps open up the wackier, cosmic side of the X-Men franchise. I assume the X-Men rights comes with the likes of Mojo, Spiral and the Starjammers as part of the deal.
Also, going the M'Kraan Crystal/Shi'ar route helps distinguish this from the previous attempt while at the same time helps open up the wackier, cosmic side of the X-Men franchise. I assume the X-Men rights comes with the likes of Mojo, Spiral and the Starjammers as part of the deal.
Agreed. And it's not like the theatrical cut was some kind of compromise that the studio forced onto Singer or anything like that. Singer was the one that chose to make those cuts.
The nice thing is that the Rogue Cut DVD includes both versions of the film. (I just wish I'd known that before I bought the original single-disc theatrical DVD.
)Well, this IS a thread covering the X-Men movie franchise as a whole, so that totally belongs here (moreso than some of the tangents I've gone on
).I just rewatched X-Men Origins: Wolverine last night. While some of the action stuff is a bit cheesy, I still think it has one of the best supporting casts of any of the X-Men films.
Yes, but since the Phoenix is such a major part of the story and was teased so well at the end of X2, its failure in X3 is not a minor thing. It's a major structural flaw in the movie.
Also, I was kinda bugged that they never did any flame effects for the Phoenix character in the movie. If they had, the name would have made a lot more sense.
Rogue's story was brief but well handled. It was a sensible conclusion to her story given the way that it had developed in the first 2 movies.
Angel was a weakness. It seemed like he was originally supposed to have a major subplot but it got cut down to next to nothing (either in the scripting or the editing, I don't know).
While X-Men: The Last Stand probably would have been better with Singer at the helm, I think Superman Returns needed Singer more. IMO, Brett Ratner's X-Men: The Last Stand was far superior compared to what Ratner's Superman movie would have looked like.
Although, my favorite X-director is still Matthew Vaughn. I think his work on X-Men: First Class showed more warmth & emotional engagement than any of Singer's films. In particular, I thought that there was something a little cold & distant about the emotional scenes in X-Men: Days of Future Past. (However, I'm cool with Vaughn giving his talents to the Kingsman franchise. The first movie kicked so much ass and I'm looking forward to the 2nd!
)Agreed. Some are saying it's too soon to do Dark Phoenix again. But what if they used the next movie to establish regular Phoenix and then did Dark Phoenix in the movie after that?
And am I the only one hoping that the next go round features something closer to the original Phoenix costume?
Too soon for dark Phoenix for sure. We needs one more good x film so that we care about jean gray before turning her over to the dark side. And i agree i think vaughns take on first class was perfect even though x2 and DOFP are close behind. I just found a good deal on the essential xmen reprints from the 70s. Cant wait to read the original stories.
Us fans and especially the general audience needs one more good film to flesh out all these characters. They need to focus on the cyclops/jean relationship more. Less focus on wolverine next time. They can do more for storm for sure. She way too underused. Bring on the fall of the mutants and inferno. Hell it be cool as hell to see the brood. Make the next x film more a horror flick than action. Either the brood or do the inferno storyline. Now that would be different.
Us fans and especially the general audience needs one more good film to flesh out all these characters. They need to focus on the cyclops/jean relationship more. Less focus on wolverine next time. They can do more for storm for sure. She way too underused. Bring on the fall of the mutants and inferno. Hell it be cool as hell to see the brood. Make the next x film more a horror flick than action. Either the brood or do the inferno storyline. Now that would be different.
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