The Would-Be Season Five

[Captain X]

startrekwatcher said:
I remember many were up in arms over "Regeneration" when spoilers first leaked for it but in the end many felt it was very well done and a highlight of season two.

I don't care if I'm in the minority on this opinion, but I thought the epsiode wasn't all that great even by itself because it weakened the Borg that much more so our crew from the 22nd Century could take on an enemy that gave the crews of much more advanced starships the fight of their lives 200 years later. It was bad enough on VOY when they did it so one, medium-sized starship could take them on by themselves.

 

[JiNX-01]

Captain X said:
I don't care if I'm in the minority on this opinion, but I thought the epsiode wasn't all that great even by itself because it weakened the Borg that much more so our crew from the 22nd Century could take on an enemy that gave the crews of much more advanced starships the fight of their lives 200 years later. It was bad enough on VOY when they did it so one, medium-sized starship could take them on by themselves.

Well, I had no problem with the Borg being off their game in Regeneration. The "originals" had been frozen for a century, they're working with 22nd century technology, they're cut off from the larger collective and their newly assimilated members are from the 22nd century so they don't bring much to the table in terms of technological "distinctiveness," and they didn't really have much opportunity to enhance the defenses in ship they commandeered before Enterprise caught up with them.

 

[Captain X]

Most people don't seem to have a problem with that, but considering that the Borg were supposed to be this nearly unbeatable juggernaught of a foe, I do.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Shran's joining the crew would be interesting. I am guessing he would become the new MACO commander. He is, after all, an experienced soldier, and being the leader of the MACOs would be a perfect fit for him.

 

[Anubis]

The more Shran the merrier.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I like Shran joinging the cast because it is the beginning of the idea of mixed crews serving together that would become commonplace in the Federation.

 

[JiNX-01]

Captain X said:
Most people don't seem to have a problem with that, but considering that the Borg were supposed to be this nearly unbeatable juggernaught of a foe, I do.

What made the Borg a nearly unbeatable juggernaut was the collective's numbers and the technology that allowed Borg vessels to repair themselves. And the fact is, the 24th century Borg -- with all their advantages -- were clearly still vulnerable and were defeated or stopped without the use of superohmygod 24th century technology or weaponry.

And the 22nd century Borg have even fewer advantages.

 

[TeutonicNights]

But technically those were 24th century Borg.

 

[JiNX-01]

TeutonicNights said:
But technically those were 24th century Borg.

True. But they were still dealing with 22nd century technology and as I said, they needed time to modify the ship they took to bring it up to 24th century advances. Remember in First Contact? It took time for the Borg to modify the ship to suit their needs. The same would be true here.

I still maintain there is no contradiction in Enterprise catching up with them and stopping them.

 

[TeutonicNights]

Yeah. There's no real problem there, especially with them probably weakened by having been frozen (as you too have said).
This could also explain why they took so long to adapt to the weapons etc.

 

[Cyclopean]

Shran should have replaced Reed as tactical officer. He would have made a great sparring partner for T'Pol.

As for the Borg? I think the Borg's obsession with humanity is illogical and strategically suspect. There are better ways to defeat the Federation and assimilate their technology than attacking the best defended planet near presumably the center of their space.

So even if it apparently contradicts canon, I don't mind if the Borg Queen is human. It could explain their irrational interest in humanity.

Would it make for an interesting story, though? Unlikely.

The best way to go (I think) would be to have Alice Krige experimenting with Borg technology in order to control the drones. Make her power-hungry to begin with, and obsessed with conquering death. Have her assimilate a small colony and head off toward the Delta Quadrant, intent on claiming her empire.

Depending on how long her journey took, this could explain the absence of a Borg Queen in TNG.

And even after coming up with that, I still don't see this as a compelling story, just a ratings grab.

 

[TeutonicNights]

Cyclopean said:
this could explain the absence of a Borg Queen in TNG.

You think in such three-dimensional terms

 

[Cyclopean]

You know, though, the Borg Queen does claim to be at Wolf 359, even though she's absent from the show. Perhaps she arrived back in DQ after first contact via Q and before Best of Both Worlds (or whatever it was called)?

 

[Cyclopean]

TeutonicNights said:You think in such three-dimensional terms

Whether Sol and Wolf 359 lie near the heart of the Federation isn't established on screen AFAIR. But Earth seems to be of prime importance to the Federation's government.

It would have been a lot easier for the Borg to continue attacking outlying, less well defended areas of the Federation than to transconduit their way toward the heart of the Federation, where there are presumably more ships available for defense.

If you're referring to the whole time travel element of the Borg invasion (the First Contact plot)... I don't really know what to say. The Borg were truly stupid to deploy their time travel device at a place and time where the Federation could best counter it (tons of ships in the area, shitloads of sensor data.)

Why not just send a cube or sphere back to 1800 and transconduit to earth well before Cochrane?

Still a fun movie, though.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Cyclopean said:
You know, though, the Borg Queen does claim to be at Wolf 359, even though she's absent from the show.

Does she really? I know many fans believe this but I always took the Queen's "you think in such three dimensional terms" to mean that Picard was thinking like a human and not a Borg.

Maybe the point of that statement was that Picard erroneously thought she was physically present on the BoBW cube. And basically by saying that he thought in such three-dimensional terms(i.e. physical space) she was suggesting that if he remembered what being a Borg truly meant he would have realized she wasn't physically on the cube in BoBW but instead through the intimacy of the shared Hive Mind he felt her presence even though she might have been all the way back in the Delta Quadrant at Unimatrix One. Afterall the shared consciousness of thought and memory certainly transcends three dimensional thinking.

And the stylized flash we see in the film of Locutus in an alcove looking straight ahead with the Queen off to his side whispering seemed almost to me as a artistic way of communicating that visually.

 

[Captain X]

Some of us liked Reed.

 

[Skywalker]

I liked Reed! I wouldn't have been too happy if they dropped him to bring Shran in. If they had to get rid of an old character to make room for Shran, why not Travis?

 

[Cyclopean]

startrekwatcher said:Does she really? I know many fans believe this but I always took the Queen's "you think in such three dimensional terms" to mean that Picard was thinking like a human and not a Borg.

I just took it as retcon. Your interpretation is definitely valid.

Overall, I was just wondering aloud about the best way to tie in the Borg Queen to ENT if such an episode happened.

Sorry about the digression about FC.

 

[Anubis]

Randy1012 said:
I liked Reed! I wouldn't have been too happy if they dropped him to bring Shran in. If they had to get rid of an old character to make room for Shran, why not Travis?

Honesty, I could've lived without Travis, Reed, or Hoshi. I found them all to be totally uninteresting, and I blame that squarely on the writers. Don't get me wrong, I like Enterprise, but I've also heard this complaint from others as well. I think the fact that Shran, who appears in a handful of episodes, is infinitely more interesting and likable says a lot. Plus, I feel sorry for Jeffrey Combs never getting to be one of the regular cast.

As for the Borg, meh. Honestly I couldn't care less about the Borg Queen or her origin.

 

[ChristopherPike]

I don't think Shran's addition to cast would've meant removing anybody, at least not right away. Reed was just beginning to get interesting... his conflict with the late Major Hayes over control of security, then his 'Section 31' past in Season 4 worked out well. Sure, Reed mostly came of his shell while being rubbed up the wrong way, but that was a start. I guess as a stiff necked Brit, I've had a soft spot for him since episodes like Silent Enemy and Shuttlepod One.

With the Romulan War right around the corner, some interesting character development could've happened, perhaps even a death amongst the crew.

Shran becoming an Andorian military attaché (or a test to see how Starfleet could work in the future, beginning a crew exchange because of the collation). The Guard no doubt see this as his punishment for losing of his last command.

Reed on covert missions to learn about the enemy, whether behind the lines or back on Earth.

Hoshi trying to decipher messages in code, an unknown new language coming from Romulan ships, uncovering a new race under their control, the Remans. Maybe placed in command during a vital mission or two.

T'Pol having her loyalities tested in two directions - the Vulcans being against war, while uncovering a startling truth about her part Romulan heritage.

Mayweather could receive a promotion, only to be busted back down later to Ensign when he disobeys orders and puts the ship at risk.

Trip presents a significant problem. This could either be ignored entirely, merely showing what happens in his "gap years" or maybe go down the "history books were wrong" route taken by Pocket Books.

Archer's romantic relationship with the Skipper of the NX-02 is tested to the limit during various skirmishes. Meanwhile, Romulan agents are revealed to be behind a disastrous accident within the solar system near Starfleet's shipyards, where Warp 6 trials are underway. This could have a personal connection to the Captain. As a child, he could've witnessed a similar event that nearly killed his father and derailed Starfleet's formation. Evidence that unseen forces have been at work for decades.

Just a few story threads that could be expanded on, giving each character their own arc.