The world-building of this new Trek universe

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by davejames, May 21, 2013.

  1. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    So far, we've seen a 100% success rate for this new process in rushed situations/combat-type environments.

    If the process really is so dangerous, Spock Prime is kind of a jerk. "Here is your formula for transwarp beaming Mr. Scott. Uh, it has a high mortality rate, and nobody in their right mind would do this in ordinary circumstances, just so you know." We don't get this speech in the film, however, which indicates that Spock Prime feels it is safe enough that he doesn't feel the need to say anything.

    Your point is reasonable, it is something which could be written into the text, but it hasn't been written in yet. What has been written in is that the trip from Earth to Chronos is just a transporter jump away.

    And let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that they do write it into the text. Even here, however, it would still seem reasonable to transport anything but a person across these distances (e.g., food, medicine, supplies). The Enterprise should no longer have "pack mule" plots where she has to move medicine or food around (a common source of drama in Trek - a time sensitive mission vs. pressing exigent circumstance).

    For the time being, you could also argue that this is super-secret technology which they don't want to share which would still necessitate that Starships go through the motions of moving stuff around. The question then becomes how long this remains a secret (military secrets are the most fleeting of all).
     
  2. Mr. B

    Mr. B Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Don't bother. Unlike old Trek which at least paid lip service to logic and continuity, these new movies are just sloppily crafted vehicles for flashy action sequences. There aren't any Rich Sternbachs or real scientists on the payroll this time around.
     
  3. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why does "paying lip service" to something impress you?
     
  4. Mr. B

    Mr. B Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In many circumstances, Trek did far more than merely play lip service to real science, something I admire about Star Trek. I used the phrase "at least paid lip service" to head off inevitable rebukes related to individual circumstances where science and logic were largely ignored.
     
  5. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Like, every episode.

    In the effort to bash these movies, you're asserting a distinction that doesn't exist the way you'd like to insist that it does.
     
  6. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, this is a major annoyance for me. Apart from some isolated incidents I think it is normal for a Starship to take days warping from one star system to another, not hours and certainly not minutes. It breaks away from old Star Trek in this regard and makes the galaxy tiny imo. Star Trek Voyager is impossible in this timeline unless they are sent to the other side of the observable universe!

    Another major annoyance and a departure from Star Trek (yeah yeah except that one forgettable DS9 episode.. please) and it makes Starships redundant. All invented to get out of a script dead end.

    They need to talk like they are from the 20th/21st century so that we can relate to them. This is fine imo. If it was a realistic portrayal of the 23rd century it would be so weird that no one would want to watch it !

    This doesnt bother me tbh. It is again a departure from what we are used to but compared to instawarp and transwarp beaming its not a big issue.

    Can be technicly explained by the timeline change but I think the Gorn and Tribbles were known about before the 5 year mission?

    Instawarp and Transwarp beaming piss me off the most and yes the script writers have twisted the tech to suit their script moreso than any other writers in Trek history imo. They do not consider the consequences of changing this and that because they quite rightly are well aware that the majority of people are not going to pick up on it. The less of Trek you have seen the better imo.
     
  7. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    You remember a vastly different Trek franchise than I.
     
  8. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    There needs to be a passage of time for warping from one place to another, not 2 minutes! I realise Warp is speed of plot!

    How you show this passage of time varies...

    In Star Trek 3 the BoP goes from the Genesis Planet to Vulcan but we cut to McCoys talk with unconscious Spock. We have no indication of when this scene took place or anything. Maybe it was 24 hours after they left Genesis but only half way through the journey? Who knows? Its the ambiguity of it that allows people like me to accept it. Not 2 minutes..

    If Kirk says: "Best speed to Vulcan" but there is no cut and we stay with him whilst he discusses something with the crew until they suddenly arrive at Vulcan 2mins later it would be wrong. No?
     
  9. shapeshifter

    shapeshifter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :lol: Great idea! ;)
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

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    Not quite a hundred percent. While he wasn't killed, Scotty did end up inside the Enterprise machinery.
     
  11. The Comedian

    The Comedian Captain Captain

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    Here's what happened:
    Nero shows up. Destroys the Kelvin without breaking a sweat.
    Starfleet freaks out, develops its weapon programs. Enterprise is much bigger and more powerful as a result, with TNG warp drive (for example).
    Spock shows up, there's fight with Nero, Starfleet freaks out further, decides to see what's out there - hence earlier discovery of some of the things from TOS.
     
  12. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, that covers it. Probably worth mentioning Vulcan, though - that's what they really freak out about big time.
     
  13. The Comedian

    The Comedian Captain Captain

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    Well yeah. That's a given. Destroying Alderaan or Vulcan always gets the natives stirred up.
     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

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    Except for the Vulcan natives... :eek:
     
  15. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    True, but it was the first time they had used the formula in that universe and it was a pressure situation and it was a ship traveling at warp.

    The villain in the last film has no trouble using a back-pack sized transporter(!) to go from Earth to Kronos(!) (and he appeared no worse for wear on the other side).

    I think your mitigations are reasonable, but I think we still have to acknowledge that this is a game-changing technology.
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

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    I'm use to game-changing tech getting pushed out of the picture once it is no longer useful to a story. I don't see transwarp beaming being any different in this regard. They stripped the transwarp formula from the Enterprise computers and evidently from Scott's personal files because they just didn't beam from the ship to Kronos when they decided to capture Harrison.

    I think its pretty likely we've seen the last of transwarp beaming.
     
  17. pymfan2000

    pymfan2000 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Honestly, I don't think the writers or Abrams care that much about the background or have thought about the ramifications of the tech they depict. Like alot of things in the two Abramsverse movies, stuff happens or is included because they think it would be cool or look neat. They don't demonstrate any thinking about much of anything beyond this very superficial level.
    Transwarp beaming is a good example as are warp travel times and just the science in general. Cold Fusion, for example, a term they clearly have no idea the definition of but use anyway. Why, when they could just have used a technobabble term instead I have no idea.
    They don't think things through and assume that viewers won't acre to either. That's sad. Star Trek doesn't have to be this dumb.
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

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    You realize that variations on transwarp beaming have existed as far back as Assignment: Earth and That Which Survives
     
  19. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    We can argue about the scientific validity of different iterations of the franchise all day, but it's a falsehood to say that these new movies don't have "real scientists" on the payroll.

    Admittedly, I have no idea about Star Trek Into Darkness, but Star Trek (2009) definitely paid Carolyn Porco as a science consultant. For both films, it's a safe bet that whichever (uncredited) firm was hired to do script clearance and research also provided similar scientific advice (de Forest Research and later Joan Pearce Research Associates did the same without credit for the franchise from 1965 to the end of Enterprise).
     
  20. pymfan2000

    pymfan2000 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I do and they were examples of the crew being wowed by technological feats that were beyond then-current Federation science.

    The point isn't wehther advanced aliens in Classic Trek had something like transwarp beaming or aeven that old Spock and Young Scotty introduced it to the Abramsverse. The point is that if the technology is dependably workable it makes starships and other kinds of space transport obsolete in certain roles.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2013