The world-building of this new Trek universe

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by davejames, May 21, 2013.

  1. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Faster warp may mean intergalactic travel for our crew--at least I hope it does.
     
  2. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    I hoped Transwarp beaming would be conveniently forgotten after the first one but..

    I fully expect it to turn up again though I do hold out a glimmer of hope that Bob Orci reads the boards here and elsewhere and realises its not welcome in the Trek universe and neither is uber warp.

    I am aware uber tech comes and goes on various one off episodes in Star Trek but it becomes a game changer when its used again and certainly when its used in consecutive episodes.

    One example (there are many!) would be TNG episode 'The Nth Degree'. Reg Barclay tells the computer how to make a neural interface and then warps the Enterprise 30,000 lightyears in a flash using existing tech. Its never spoken of again. Its forgotten about completely and assumed lost when Barclay loses his 'powers'. That was my hope for Transwarp beaming... Imagine TNG if they still had the ability to jump 30,000 ly every episode, it wouldve changed everything about Star Trek. That is what Transwarp Beaming and ultrafast warp are currently doing. Bin them both, Bob Orci!
     
  3. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    I don't think the musings of hardcore Trek fans weigh much in the balance.
     
  4. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    Well they should.

    Imagine Orci working on a Star Wars movie and he submits a script that features a Jedi character moving an entire Star Destroyer or a Moon with his Jedi powers.

    The script would go straight into George Lucas' shredding machine because Jedi can't do that.

    Now that the old producers have gone there is no 'filter' for the scripts to go through and we end up with very silly scripts with Trek tech tweaked and twisted into transwarp bollocks :klingon:
     
  5. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    No, I think they should go with the larger audience, not the smaller one.
     
  6. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    They cant assume the entire audience like the changes.

    Why proceed in trashing the trek universe based on an assumption that everyone is fine with it? They have no idea! Better to take extra time writing a script that does not rely on silly tech in the first place and then everyone is happy. Just because episode 123 of series 3 in 1995 does something equally absurd does not give them a free ticket to write whatever nonsense they want.

    They should hire one or two of the old guard to pitch in on the next script.
     
  7. The Comedian

    The Comedian Captain Captain

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    Size matters not.
    Yoda said as much.
    So it's canon.
    :)
     
  8. Norsehound

    Norsehound Captain Captain

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    You haven't heard of the Force Unleashed have you? A Jedi pulls down a Star Destroyer.

    http://youtu.be/edK6XE4PE1I?t=3m47s

    It's easier for folks if you realize that the entire slate of Trek science has been wiped clean. How Warp Drive works, distances, the layout of the universe, all new. Why? Who cares, it just is.

    Without dragging around the loadstone of canon around, the powers that be are free to create fun and entertaining stories. I have no problem with Kronos being a few hours' travel away from Earth in spite of what old canon tells us. I don't mind the transwarp beaming macguffin being able to cross that distance either, or all of the other things a lot of people are complaining about.

    It's like TOS all over again, when nitpicky details didn't get in the way of a great story. I don't care how far away Starbase 11 was from the Talos Star group, it's just there.
     
  9. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    I have a better idea: why post on this thread with the assumption that you know what's in the writers' heads ? You don't know what they assume.
     
  10. Robert D. Robot

    Robert D. Robot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Believe me, I understand how restrictive it has been for writers to create new tales, while not creating anything that conflicts with all the Trek history and Trek Tech that has been previously established in the Prime Universe over the decades.

    However, for me, the problem here is not about cutting the ties to the cumbersome loadstone of 'trivial' canon around, but it is about tossing away a cornerstone of the basics at the core of Star Trek.

    The Captain of the Enterprise NCC-1701 is a human named Kirk, not a half-Romulan named Augustus. The Enterprise is not a purely research vessel with minimum offensive capabilities. The Klingons are not an ancient, advanced race of galactic peacekeepers that have historically stepped in to save the Federation's ass from the constant attacks of the Moties and the Dracs.

    It is not critical to me that Kirk's middle initial is (or isn't) "R". It isn't critical to me that Picard and TOS and 'Enterprise' seem to be at odds regarding when Humans and Klingons first butted heads. I do think it changes things, however, if Starfleet can use transwarp beaming to instantaneously send regiments of crack assault teams to Qo'nos (or any other world) to surprise and obliterate the enemy. Or immediately send tons of quadrotriticale to those starving on Sherman's Planet. Or send replacement parts to repair the Enterprise's damage after she comes back through the energy barrier at the galactic rim. Or beam ryetalyn to Kirk when half the crew has Rigelian Fever.

    Transwarp beaming can pretty much defang any dilemma, and thus eliminate any drama, in the reaches of Star Trek space. That is why I feel that the existence of this particular TrekTech is a bridge too far for the type of story-telling Trek is about.

    Transwarp beaming might be OK for some incarnation of Trek a few centuries after Kirk's time, but I think it is not good for nu-TOS era stories. It changes too much.
     
  11. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    That's a very nice post, there. And I agree that, brought to its logical conclusion, it defuses almost any problem. It's the same problem with super-speed Warp drive.

    However, both these technologies have been godlike in the past, with the Galactic Barrier thing, the Great Barrier thing, etc. And the Genesis device, a godly super-thing, was never heard of about after ST IV.

    So, yeah, it's an unfortunate plot device in a way, but it's not unique in the history of Trek.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

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    But didn't they have the same issue with transporters. Always needing them to breakdown or have the Prime Directive to get in the way of a quick beam out?
     
  13. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Pretty much.
     
  14. Robert D. Robot

    Robert D. Robot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think we are in agreement, Belz..., regarding the conundrums that are created with the introduction of these 'unfortunate' plot devices. And we haven't even talked about probably the biggest one of all-- Time Travel! The ability to rewrite over almost any bad situation! (And you know that Section 31 would be out there using the Intermix Formula that Spock had worked out over Psi 2000 to rewrite the past to best benefit Starfleet!...)

    Others have commented on how a ship's travel time between certain planets and regions of space is dependent on the needs of the story being told. I guess a corollary that must be grudgingly accepted is that the level of technology available to our heroes is also dependent on the needs of the script!
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  15. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Everything is a function of the story, including the intelligence or personality of each character. Sadly, these vary quite often in many franchises.