The world-building of this new Trek universe

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by davejames, May 21, 2013.

  1. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As much as I absolutely loved the first movie (the sequel, a bit less so), the one thing I'm really having a problem with is the lack of any internal logic or understandable continuity with this new universe, and what that portends for the future.

    Hell, this isn't so much an "alternate timeline" as an alternate fantasy world. Just for starters we’ve got:

    - Starships that can seemingly traverse the galaxy in minutes
    - The ability to beam to far-off distant planets, or onto ships travelling at warp
    - 23rd century humans that still talk and act exactly like they're from the 20th
    - Starships with massive engineering rooms and shuttlebays that are completely out of scale with the rest of the ship
    - The Enterprise encountering things from deep space (like the Gorn, evil Gary Mitchell, Tribbles, etc) long before they've even set out on their 5-year mission


    Anyone else just having a really hard time getting their head around how this new universe works? Because as fun as the movies are, I'm not sure they're building a very believable world here, and I'm wondering how the heck they'll ever make sense of it for the next TV series...
     
  2. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish BillJ Premium Member

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    No.

    Nothing that has been in these films is any more off-the-wall or unbelievable than what Trek has presented in the past.
     
  3. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Nope, dont see any problems there. This is a parallel but different timeline. Some things can be closer than others all at the definable quality of the writers, that's why they diverged the timelines in the first place. Therefore it doesnt matter WHEN the Gorn appeared before, they already appeared here, same with Mudd.

    Warp speed: It's always been definable by the writers...they went warp 14 in TOS, redefined the scale for STNG, but they can use any method they choose to define it in the JJ universe. Its not unprecedented, other SF universes on film and literature have traveled as fast.

    As Christopher already pointed out on the Lit forum, ST has already had technology like the transwarp transporter, it just took too much power to use regularly.

    I have a greater problem with the culture not being as different from us as it should be, but in this context all it means is that it's more easily identifiable to audiences, and so succeeds in bringing more people in to watch the movie. Perfectly reasonable as it's Hollywood entertainment.

    The fact that YOU (and some others) are having problems with it is that you are all impressing them on the movie, when you shouldn't be.

    RAMA
     
  4. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I understand the different timeline (and the idea that Nero's arrival probably sped certain developments up), but I would still expect warp speed to operate in the same basic way, and for their technology to at least have some believable limits.

    Or for established aliens and alien planets to still be in the same basic place and look the same basic way (although I guess we can just assume these Klingons are yet another race or evolutionary branch from the rest).
     
  5. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Again, warp has always been definable by the writers and plots. It was only set at STNG's scale because they chose to spell it out. They could just have easily said they used slipstream drive, or transwarp drive, or wormholes. Since warp isnt even possible as far as we know, any form of warp is probably as believable as any other.

    On a technical level, any other universe that exists is going to have a totally new set of physical laws anyway. Our physical laws only apply here.
     
  6. Kpnuts

    Kpnuts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I guess the only two head-scratchers for me are the ridiculously fast warp speed and the transporters (more because of the total inconsistency from situation to situation than the transwarp beaming). For the record I love both movies, and am really enjoying this nuTrek.
     
  7. Patrickivan

    Patrickivan Fleet Captain Newbie

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    I won't say I have a problem with it, but I completely understand where you're coming from here...

    JJ and company had no desire to continue the stories in the Star Trek universe. They made a fun movie to make money and that's okay.

    When I watch new trek, I pretty much just ignore old Trek because it just doesn't work with new trek- alternate universe or not.

    I like my old Trek (well, not ALL of it), but I like new Trek as well- as long as I don't try to pigeon hole it into the Star Trek universe and continuity (as loose as that is).

    Just enjoy it as a good movie or not.
     
  8. shapeshifter

    shapeshifter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's a reboot.

    Someone is bound to bring up the FACT it ties back to the Original universe/timeline, whatever... Forget it. That was just a widget to tease us into going along with them. Now, anything goes.

    The trick to getting your head around how this new universe works is to stop comparing it to how the old one did!!1one!
     
  9. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    Just thought I'd clarify that the ORIGINAL Star Trek is indeed a fantasy world, as well, and nothing had to make sense then for people to accept it.
     
  10. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But that's the thing, it actually DID make some kind of sense before-- which is why fans have embraced the Trek universe and kept it going for so many years.

    Even in a world of starships and transporters and green-skinned alien women, there were certain rules and a basic, underlying believability to the whole thing that I'm just not feeling with this new universe at all.

    Hell, why even bother going on a 5-year mission anymore? From what we've seen, you could basically travel to the other side of the galaxy in a couple of days now!
     
  11. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No.
     
  12. shapeshifter

    shapeshifter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    davejames, it's only different in your head. Neither way is technically "correct" because it's all fiction.

    The Prime has its rules and the Nu has its versions. Done. Now, instead of bemoaning what you feel you have lost try considering potential benefits of the Nu rules...

    For example. Regarding the 5 year mission, the stakes are now raised, (assuming they remain true to their own rules.) Given the new speeds half or more the Galaxy is now open to exploration during that time rather than just a tiny corner. See how the Universe just got a whole lot smaller? I think it's neat. The scope of the Star Trek Universe is now bigger than ever! Heck travels to other galaxy's are now easily possible.
     
  13. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Watch the Original Series, the Animated Series and the old movies. They visited the rim of the galaxy ("Where No Man..."), the centre of the galaxy twice ("Magicks of Megas-Tu", STV: The Final Frontier) and in "By Any Other Name", covered 1000 light years in 12 hours at warp 8.4.
    DS9 reached any Alpha/Beta Quadrant world by Runabout in the space of a scene break. Enterprise NX-01 reached Kronos in no time at warp 5.
    Numerous aliens did this in TOS, Starfleet and Ferengi were shown to have the ability in TNG "Bloodlines" and the Dominion did it throughout Deep Space Nine.
    This was true of Star Trek: The Original Series. It was only after TOS became huge in re-runs that Roddenberry's talk of an evolved humanity began, on the collage lecture circuit.
    This Enterprise is far bigger, 725m instead of the original's 289. Engineering and the shuttlebay fit inside just fine.
    People said the same about Enterprise. Phlox used tribbles to feed his pets in sickbay.
    It works just the same as the old one, as far as I can tell, but with bigger ships, a much greater emphasis on the way the original did things and cherry picked some stuff from the spin offs.
     
  14. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Captain Captain

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    The old school Trekker in me is ok believing that Nero came back in time from the future of a universe that was already separate from that of TOS/etc, chronologically prior to STXI.

    As far as nuTrek, I can take it or leave it and I still enjoy classic Trek ('classic' meaning TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY). I like the fact that classic Trek had a somewhat consistent (within reason) continuity. At the same time, though, I really like being able to see a different take on characters, stories, and the universe from a Star Trek perspective.

    I like reading TNG era books and I'm disappointed that, at present, it's not likely we'll see anything on the TV screen set in the prime universe, but it's still really cool to imagine and see on the big screen what perhaps Star Trek might look like in another universe within the vast Trek multiverse.

    To be honest, I'd even like to see some kind of Star Trek movie production based on the Starfleet Universe continuity.
     
  15. Norsehound

    Norsehound Captain Captain

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    Seconded on the Starfleet Universe continuity, though I doubt we'll ever see anything like that because it's too militaristic for the TNG fans. :P

    I accept completely that the new trek series is writing a new Star Trek canon. All the names are there and the characters act similarly but the universe has changed and things are done differently now. I find it refreshing and want more!
     
  16. starbuck

    starbuck Captain Captain

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    What happened in tos will happen in jj trek they are going on a 5yr mission who is to say that most things will fall into line with what happened before , with few new twist
     
  17. The Librarian

    The Librarian Commodore Commodore

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    For all the complaints about "world building" that focus on trivia like warp speeds, at least in this film we actually got to see the world, which is more than you can say about all the other films. Instead of just that one, constantly reused shot of Starfleet Command and San Francisco bay, we see actual cities that are full of people.
     
  18. Tau Ceti III

    Tau Ceti III Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This one simple thing turns the entire premise of Trek on its ear

    If the Enterprise can travel from the Klingon homeworld to Earth in 60 seconds, so can the Klingons

    You don't need starships in that universe, you need fortress defenses on every world you care about that can defend it from any size fleet your enemy can throw at you
     
  19. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No.
     
  20. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Have you people even seen Star Trek? The original Enterprise visited the rim of the galaxy twice, the centre of the galaxy twice, and covered 1000 light years in 12 hours at warp 8.4.

    It was Voyager that slowed warp speed down to make their journey last a lifetime instead of a month.