The Walking Dead Season 6 Discussion

[Trekker4747]

Running into Officer Lamson with a speeding car, then blowing his brains out shatters any "moral boundaries," as it was unjustified. Rick is cop with cop driving experience, so he could have passed Lamson and quickly blocked him, much in the way Dawn's cops did the same to Noah. Rick was not interested in exercising that option, or waiting for Lamson to simply run out of hos own options, particularly since a person with bound hands cannot move as fast as one who is free.

That's probably the closest Rick has come to "killing for pleasure" rather than self defense but even then it's still, given the circumstances, on the side of it being a form of self-defense since Officer Larson was part of a group holding one of their people captive (Beth) he had just attacked one of their own (Sasha) and fled on foot, presumably or likely, headed back towards the hospital where he's clue them in on Rick's pending attack.

It's not like Rick was doing some kind of blood-sport thing where he set the guy loose just so he could run him down. This was, in effect, an escaped prisoner from a group of people who couldn't be trusted per Noah's tales.

So while he came "close" to killing for pleasure there it still, mostly, falls on a form of "self defense" or at least retaliation for him escaping captivity and no longer being "trusted" as a prisoner (who's to say he wouldn't attempt escape again?) so right on the line, but still not quite "killing for sport." The most "enjoyment" Rick got out of it was his "kill-quip" post-mortem.

That's world's different from the clear enjoyment and pleasure Negan was getting from mulling over who he would kill, and from killing itself, his whole group seems to take some level of "enjoyment" from killing. (See: the photos of people's crushed in heads on the wall of the Saviors' satellite compound.)

 

[Arrrrgggh]

I would be willing to bet that any explanation as to why the zombies exist would be controversial at best. What would you prefer:

1. A government designed virus.

Don't we already know from season one that it's a mutated (accidental or otherwise) virus of some sort?

Really, any explanation will just cause more debate like it did with Lost or Battlestar Galactica.

Of course it would because it's simply not possible. Certainly not with the tech level of the show.

Hell, the whole thing is nonsensical even if you accept that a virus (or anything else) could reanimate the dead. The fact that A) everyone is infected, but only turns into a zombie if B) they're bitten or C) they die is just... there's no rational explanation for that. If it was just B, or just A and C, then it'd at least make some modicum of sense. But all three? It just... yeah, no. It's like saying, "Yeah, you have AIDS, but if this guy bites you or your heart stops, you get SUPER AIDS." Wot?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

The cause of the outbreak hasn't crossed my mind in years. Really doesn't change anything for our survivors either way. If all the undead were eliminated they'd still be fighting Negan and struggling to rebuild. They just would be able to move about a little easier.

 

[bbjeg]

... Yes, that is a lingering mystery that has to be revisited. Her half revelation in "JSS" ("that's how we were able to...") either meant the Wolves, The Saviors, or...the Kingdom? Enid is an interesting character, and I like how she challenges Carl. I would hope she does not turn out to be an enemy.

I always thought "that's how we were able to..." meant her and Carl. They were able to sneak in an out of Alexandria unseen.

I agree with the rest of that post though.

 

[sojourner]

I always thought "that's how we were able to..." meant her and Carl. They were able to sneak in an out of Alexandria unseen

Yep, this. There's no conspiracy there.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

You're assuming society will return to normal. It's easy to imagine (because it pretty much happened) a group like the Wolves making it to the armory of a group like Alexadria and wiping them all out, creating a herd right there, and don't forget about that occasional zombie-flu that can crop up. There are tons of ways to create a herd, especially in a TV series.

I'm not assuming it will return to normal. I'm assuming the vast majority of people (especially people who have already survived to this point) will do the logical thing and prevent the creation of new zombies whenever possible. And that's an assumption that generally holds up over the show. The wolves seem to be the only group we've ever seen that didn't follow that general concept (and they are quite possibly all dead now). So even when there is some big terrible battle - someone will be the winner, and will make sure the losers don't turn. Even if there is some big new outbreak, not everyone will get sick at the same time, and there will almost always be someone to stop the dead from turning.

Is it even spoilers now to say who died in the comics? Seems like everyone knows and it's been posted about 400 times already. Anyway that's what I thought was so good in the comic when Glenn died here, that Abraham only died a few issues earlier. So it was like two main characters the Saviours had killed in quick succession. On the show it's like "that doctor woman who know one cared about or knew her name and wait 6 months to find out who else." zzz

My gut feeling at this point is that this whole situation may actually lead to multiple deaths in one scene. It's one thing for the whole group to kneel and try to accept things while Negan is just blowing hot air, but when he actually starts beating the hell out of someone? I won't be surprised if at least one other member of the group tries to fight and gets taken out as well.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I always thought "that's how we were able to..." meant her and Carl. They were able to sneak in an out of Alexandria unseen.

I agree with the rest of that post though.

Her line would not raise instant suspicion if she finished it--and was not discussing a lack wall security during an invasion. Enid seems set up to be a character with more than meets the eye, but after building relationships with Carl, Maggie and Glenn, she's not the fatalistic, distant girl from season 5--or early S6.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

I always thought "that's how we were able to..." meant her and Carl. They were able to sneak in an out of Alexandria unseen.

Not really, not given the context and way she was saying it. It's a moot point though; the writer's clearly gave up on that storyline, at least for now. Anything and everything interesting that was going on with her has apparently been whisked away, and she's just another random background character.

 

[hux]

I dunno. I think the Saviours either know more about Alexandria than we first thought because they've got people in there.

Or

Enid (and another) may have run away from the Saviours.

 

[Starbreaker]

Spoiler: Spoilers About Seasons 7 and 8

Question: Will The Walking Dead delve into Negan’s backstory next season? —Josh
Ausiello: Sorta. While Season 7 willfeature “stories from [Negan]’s perspective,” per showrunner Scott M. Gimple, don’t look for any huge origin-y bombshells that reveal why he’s such a meanie. “The guy you see is the guy he is. There won’t be this [big] ‘behind the mask’ reveal.” BONUS SCOOP: Despite Corey Hawkins’ starring role in Fox’s 24 reboot, Walking Dead fans “will absolutely see Heath again,” Gimple confirms, adding that, “We’re hoping to have him in a certain episode [next season].”

Question: Were those guys who approached Morgan and Carol in Sunday’sWalking Dead finale from The Kingdom? —Andrew
Ausiello: Outlook hazy. “Those guys may or may not have been from The Kingdom,” Gimple hedges. “And we may or may not see The Kingdom. But if we do see the Kingdom, it’ll be a big reveal and another new world to inhabit and explore.” Since that answer was about as meaty as the inside of my fridge (it’s funny because I’m a vegetarian!), I think I owe you another BONUS SCOOP: During a conference call with reporters Monday, Jeffrey Dean Morgan hinted that Negan could be around for Seasons 7 and 8. Teased the actor: “You’re going to see Negan do some stuff in the next year or two that’s not going to be very nice.”

 

[Velocity]

Regarding Negan's victim, it seems to me that if he wanted to intimidate Rick's group and lessen their ability and will to fight back, he would take out their biggest man and that would be Abraham.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Also, just wondering if Rick thought there was a possibility of escape/fight. There were only 2 guards. This was after the claimers, right? So a possibility of fighting.

It was not just the two in the room, and it was just as bad as the Saviors. Think about it: In the Terminus slaughter room you had Gareth (who was armed), the man cutting throats and the one using the bat. If Rick thought he could get by that, there would still be the entire, armed population, including that long line of fence guards. All of that was considered before the fortune of Carol's rescue.

So, if Rick was willing to take his chances against a fully armed camp that easily herded the heroes into a box car, completely surrounded by cannibals who were hell-bent on not letting their food source go, it makes one wonder why he looked so shell shocked with the Saviors.

He's been there before:

• groups of armed enemies using gunfire to lead the heroes to a selected area.
• enemies taking the heroes' weapons.
• outnumbered by the enemies.
  
• forcing the heroes on their knees.
• the threat of death only moments away.

He had no greater chance of escape or survival at Terminus.

Well then why can't you just accept it as God... and like God with Job, he might not reveal what actually happened. Definitely not to the characters in the story

Its not a matter of not accepting it as God, your nanite idea, or anything else. Characters dont simply stop looking for an answer to a life-altering problem or catastrophe--it is human nature to do so, particularly when the problem only grows, outnumbering the living / increasing the chances of death if it is not stopped to any degree. No one ever said it was the focus of the series, but it is clear Darabont (in writing "TS-19") reasoned that survivors will seek answers. Even post Darabont, the series had Milton seeking answers long into the ZA.

Now that Fear the Walking Dead jumps back to the beginning, we will see if the characters act naturally and question what's going on...or behave like characters in Resident Evil, where cannibal zombies and monsters are something to shoot.

I mean, yeah it sets up war with Negan (especially when we get the Kingdom) so next season's story is set. But we were waiting for someone to die. Just let us spend the summer mourning...and then let that actor be free to pursue other opportunities and spend the summer promoting it. (Unless they are helping that actor by waiting until the production is almost ready for release?)

The season could start with a burial, and after random shots of survivors, the audience will know who is six feet under. The audience figuring it out would be almost as shocking--and trigger a feeling of helplessness, knowing that there was no explosive, miracle rescue as in the Terminus case. They just have to live with a group that will murder them whenever the mood (or alleged broken rule) strikes them.

 

[hux]

At this point I think this is my running order of kills that would be shocking to tedious.

1) Rick - no chance.
2) Carl - no chance.
3) Daryl - no chance.

4) Michonne - highly unlikely (would be fairly shocking).
5) Glenn - highly unlikely (would be fairly shocking).

6) Maggie - somewhat unlikely (would be mildly shocking).
7) Abraham - somewhat unlikely (would be mildly shocking).

8) Sasha - whatever (no shock).
9 Rosita - whatever (no shock).
10) Eugene - whatever (no shock).

11) Aaron - yawn (if you kill Aaron after such a huge cliffhanger, you deserve to be punched).

 

[Skywalker]

If the show had any guts (haha) they would kill Daryl, but we all know that's not going to happen.

 

[Velocity]

If they did kill off Daryl, Warrior Grandma would definitely take up arms. (re: Talking Dead)

 

[Push The Button]

If the show had any guts (haha) they would kill Daryl, but we all know that's not going to happen.

That would be like killing Spock in season two of TOS, a really bad move.

 

[theenglish]

That would be like killing Spock in season two of TOS, a really bad move.

I've been thinking that the most likely victims are Carl (first), Daryl (second), Michonne or Abraham.

 

[Trekker4747]

I think Rick, Carl and Daryl are pretty much immune. The story, ultimately, is about Rick and Carl has plenty of story left to tell especially with Negan now introduced and the changed temperament he's going to have after losing his eye; so they have plot immunity. Daryl is has fan-service immunity given the popularity of his character and how much merchandise he's one; killing him off would be a sure-fire way to piss off a LOT of people and possibly lose a good chunk of fans.

Michonne has some level of plot immunity considering the role she's taken on in comparison to the comics (her own character and Andrea's); everyone else is pretty much open season.

So, first I'm going to set aside any hyperbole put out there by the cast and crew of this being a "beloved" character and such; they're going to say whatever in order to keep the suspense going.

I doubt Negan is going to be one to kill women, so Maggie, Sasha and Rosita are unlikely especially since they're attractive women. Seems like he'd be more likely to take them on his "harem" than he would kill them. Yes he said he had trouble deciding but he seems to be one with a flair for the dramatic; he was being a showboat. He wasn't seemingly going in any real order with his limerick, he kept it "busy" and played around with it a bit, like having two words count for one person rather than one word per person. So he likely already knew who he wanted to take it out or had it somewhat narrowed down or at least knew who he *didn't* want to kill.

Abraham: In effect, his story has been told, he's had a "rebirth" on his outlook and a renewed purpose in life with Sasha; it'd be a pretty good dramatic punch in a "no one stays happy" sort of manner to kill him off.

Eugene: His story has more-or-less been told to some degree or another the one thing he was still "needed" for was the manufacturing of bullets and he gave the recipe/instructions to Rick.

Aaron: Honestly, I mostly forgot he was there as the show has done next to nothing with him. Getting rid of him would get sort of an annoying scratch off this show in having to find things for characters to do, especially when you're bringing on one new character and possibly more with The Kingdom coming in/on the horizon. Problem is killing him would be a cop out, it'd be the show trying to have its cake (a dramatic tension hook to end the season on) and eat it too (start the next season without losing anyone important) and would likely piss people off that they built a cliffhanger around killing off a fairly minor character. The interest in giving us stories with Aaron's sexuality is also not only covered by Tasha but likely will be covered by Jesus too if they stick to the comics. But he's more-or-less immune since his death would be pointless.

Glenn: The biggest thing going against him is that he gets it in the comics and much of the dialog we hear as Negan swings the bat matches the dialog in the comics -like Gleen staying somewhat conscious after the first strike) killing him would have the most dramatic impact on not only the audience but also on the characters given how close he is to the remaining Atlanta group but also with Abraham, Maggie and Enid. His death would likely be the most devastating to the group.

Only thing against it is all of the cock-teasing the show did with him dying over this past season between the dumpster incident and him getting swarmed by the walkers as the mega-herd took over Alexandria and the Alexandrians began to fight back.

But him dying creates the most drama in the characters and would do the most to impact most of the characters. Everyone cares about everyone else, sure, but Glenn is very much the "heart" of the group so him dying would strongly demoralize everyone.

As I pointed out up-thread the episode had the "framing device" of us seeing through someone's eyes occasionally as they're held captive somewhere by The Saviors, let out of the van, and then the POV shot of Negan using Lucille. This could just be a coincidence, but Nicotero is a pretty good director so I doubt this is a coincidence. This means more than likely the person who was killed was part of the group captured by The Saviors which means Glenn, Michonne, Rosita and Daryl.

Given how in the POV shot the person seems to be fading in and out of consciousness and has labored breathing it's easy to quickly assume it's Daryl given his injuries but not definite. The labored breathing could be coming from anyone else in the van and they all could have suffered some abuses during the time held captive. So if this is a strong clue than the person who got it would had to have been someone in the group captured in the previous episode; meaning Glenn, Michonne, Rosita and Daryl.

I think it's very, very, likely Glenn will meet the same fate as his comic book counterpart.

 

[EmoBorg]

Negan's sons Sam and Dean will appear in the upcoming seasons to avenge his eventual death..

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

3) Daryl - no chance.

The jury is out on Daryl; he's a major character, but from a creative standpoint, if you want to sell Negan as the worst thing since The Governor--only proving it from the start--then killing a major character would give Negan all of villain credibility any writer would hope for.

4) Michonne - highly unlikely (would be fairly shocking).

See my comment on Daryl.That, and Michonne being an immensely popular character, Rick's girlfriend and surrogate mother to Carl and Judith, gives her so many emotional pillars supporting the series, that killing her would knock said pillars down--which happen to be good part of why TWD is successful. Killing her would be a supremely brave move.

5) Glenn - highly unlikely (would be fairly shocking).

Well, if anyone pays attention to all of the YouTube/Walking Dead finale analysis teams, they seem to think Glenn is a dead man, as the victim sees Negan with nothing behind him (meaning no RV), and there's only a few characters (I believe its Carl, Eugene & Daryl) with that POV--Glenn among them. Since Negan told his men to take out Carl's other eye and feed it to Rick if anyone tried anything, that rules out Carl, and I doubt Eugene is the all important character death promised, so that leaves Daryl or Glenn. Since many believe as you do--that Daryl is failrly safe--that leaves one.

6) Maggie - somewhat unlikely (would be mildly shocking).
7) Abraham - somewhat unlikely (would be mildly shocking).

...but they--along with Sasha are the "hope springs eternal" gang, so in TWD, that means pain must follow.

11) Aaron - yawn (if you kill Aaron after such a huge cliffhanger, you deserve to be punched).

Yeah, no one would care about Aaron getting his head smashed--not enough character development, or personality.

Given how in the POV shot the person seems to be fading in and out of consciousness and has labored breathing it's easy to quickly assume it's Daryl given his injuries but not definite. The labored breathing could be coming from anyone else in the van and they all could have suffered some abuses during the time held captive. So if this is a strong clue than the person who got it would had to have been someone in the group captured in the previous episode; meaning Glenn, Michonne, Rosita and Daryl.

I think it's very, very, likely Glenn will meet the same fate as his comic book counterpart.

Probably.