The Walking Dead Season 6 Discussion

[Vandervecken]

Well, on the basis that no one is safe but Rick, and on the additional basis that it has to be a core character if not Glenn, I go with the following, in order of liklihood, to have a liquefied head:

1. Michonne. Especially following the conversation Abraham and Rick had about being afraid to love someone. Also, she hasn't had much of a story arc lately.
2. Carl. The eye thing may have been a fakeout. And this would be a special punishment for Rick.
3. Maggie
4. Glenn
5. Daryl



Hail Mary allusion connection: the whole eeny meeny miney moe thing reminded me of Zed choosing Butch or Wallace in Pulp Fiction. Maybe a color connection? Ie, Zed picked the black person (Wallace) and maybe so did Negan--Michonne? I'd say Sasha is safe simply because I don't think any of the second-tier characters got the bat.

Long shot I know. Still think it's Michonne most likely. Also, the "taking it like a champ" comment is the kind of condescending thing someone like Negan would say to a woman (or child).

 

[theenglish]

I wonder if the ending was set up like that because the actors are set to renegotiate contracts?

Compared to the comic, the way Negan's attack was done really negates the emotional impact of the event. I'm not saying I actually wanted a replay of the comic (especially the graphic nature of the scene), but in that there was time for the characters to react to the reality of who had been chosen before, during, and after the beating. This is one case where I would like the opening of next season to be edited slightly differently than the last minute or so of this episode.

 

[doylem1]

My Monies on Abraham to be the one killed, he was killed in the comics by Dwight from the Saviours he should have been the one in Denise's place with the arrow through the eye, plus he's had his death wish moment and come through it and was talking babies with Sasha, a little to cushy and the show tends to punish cushy between characters.

 

[bbjeg]

... I had to laugh that it turns out the mustached guy who reminded me of Trevor from GTA V actually was. He did a pretty good job as Negan's lieutenant or whatever.

I was trying to figure out where I saw (well, heard) him last. I couldn't pin it and forgot to look it up later. Thanks for sharing.

Now that it's The Comedian leading an army with Trevor as a lieutenant, I kinda want them to win and become the focus of Walking Dead.

... Eugene has really sucked as a character lately and its time for him to leave...

I think Eugene really stepped up from his disappointing past self. He's also the perfect personality to be the scientist of the group and I like his wrong place/wrong time appearances.

 

[bbjeg]

In terms of the fact that this is a television show, sure. In terms of the logical progression of events, not necessarily. The zombies clearly do decay. Eventually the giant herds will disappear. Yes, new deaths can create new zombies, but informed communities can prevent that with ease. Destroying the brain simply becomes a standard part of the accepted funeral ritual. Once the threshold of the early wave of zombies is passed, the only zombies you should ever see would be from people who die alone (or die together with no survivors) or who are deliberately allowed to turn. Those scenarios seem relatively rare, and look likely to become even more rare as the zombie threat diminishes.

You're assuming society will return to normal. It's easy to imagine (because it pretty much happened) a group like the Wolves making it to the armory of a group like Alexadria and wiping them all out, creating a herd right there, and don't forget about that occasional zombie-flu that can crop up. There are tons of ways to create a herd, especially in a TV series.

 

[davejames]

But, it's still foolish to think Rick's position is anywhere close to Negan's. Rick was, afterall, willing to recruit Jesus to their group after running into him on the road. He's only "not taking chances" in this circumstance given what they are facing. He's not going to around killing indiscriminately like Negan and the Saviors do; remember Negan's group are *still* the ones who target and kill other communities and extort them for supplies in exchange for "protection" ... from them.

So there's a world of difference between what Rick and The Group do when it comes to killing (in some manner of self defense) and what The Saviors do (kill as a show of force and manipulation.)

Killing is part of this world now, the only thing that really matters is *why* you kill; and killing in self defense is one thing (and the raid on the Saviors' cable/satellite station *was* a form of self-defense) but killing as a show of power (what The Saviors do) is something else entirely.

Agreed. Rick's group has definitely done some pretty dark and brutal things during the course of the series, but they at least don't relish and take pleasure in killing and tormenting people the way we see Negan and nearly every other group do. Which for me is still enough to keep them on the "good" side, even if just barely.

And I also wouldn't say Rick is quite as bad as Shane yet either. They may share some of the same philosophy now, but Shane was also untrustworthy and hot-headed and someone willing to kill people of his own group if they didn't go along (or if he just happened to want their wife). And I know I would certainly rather have Rick as my leader than Shane.

 

[Ethros]

My Monies on Abraham to be the one killed, he was killed in the comics by Dwight from the Saviours he should have been the one in Denise's place with the arrow through the eye, plus he's had his death wish moment and come through it and was talking babies with Sasha, a little to cushy and the show tends to punish cushy between characters.

Is it even spoilers now to say who died in the comics? Seems like everyone knows and it's been posted about 400 times already. Anyway that's what I thought was so good in the comic when Glenn died here, that Abraham only died a few issues earlier. So it was like two main characters the Saviours had killed in quick succession. On the show it's like "that doctor woman who know one cared about or knew her name and wait 6 months to find out who else." zzz

 

[shapeshifter]

I wonder, did Eugene break under pressure, spill his guts about the plan... is that why the saviors knew where they would emerge from the woods, set the trap there? He had been beaten so despite his promises to Rick could have cracked under pressure.

He did have a strange, regretful look on his face and while that doesn't prove he betrayed them, it could mean he did. That would also make him a good choice to meet Lucille. Once he is dead Negan will give him up to Rick, tell him he sold them out. Plays the, "I did you a favor" card with Rick.

 

[theenglish]

I wonder, did Eugene break under pressure, spill his guts about the plan... is that why the saviors knew where they would emerge from the woods, set the trap there? He had been beaten so despite his promises to Rick could have cracked under pressure.

He did have a strange, regretful look on his face and while that doesn't prove he betrayed them, it could mean he did. That would also make him a good choice to meet Lucille. Once he is dead Negan will give him up to Rick, tell him he sold them out. Plays the, "I did you a favor" card with Rick.

No, I think the team was corralled by a group who knew the territory better.

 

[hux]

I found it slightly unconvincing that they could predict their movements through the woods like that but meh, they needed to have that ending.

Remember when everyone thought Enid was working with the Wolves. I'm starting to think they were half right.

 

[davejames]

If the Saviors are so strong and well-coordinated, it does make you wonder why they didn't take over Alexandria sooner. Or capture any of our people during their many excursions and supply runs outside it's walls.

Unless maybe Negan's group hadn't made it's way to that area yet? Or they just didn't think Alexandria had anything worthwhile?

 

[bbjeg]

Or their border didn't reach that far yet. @grendelsbayne said it before, Daryl and co. drove for miles before running into them.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I thought it was a sly way to get the studio character, the infallible Carol, away from the confrontation with Negan. Convenient since she's done MORE carnage to his people. But then again, Daryl did blow up his crew with a bazooka.

 

[shapeshifter]

Carol will be back, along with Morgan and Enid once they release her from the closet and debrief her on where everyone went. They'll save the group, (with some help from Hilltop.)

Carol will (again) learn how important she is to the group thus getting over her funk. Morgan will learn he sometimes has to kill. Enid will get Carl back. Everyone else learns to be more careful. Rinse, repeat.

This ain't rocket science.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I would be willing to bet that any explanation as to why the zombies exist would be controversial at best. What would you prefer:

1. A government designed virus.
2. Alien invasion.
3. The result of something ancient released because of climate change.
4. God's will (my personal preference).

Really, any explanation will just cause more debate like it did with Lost or Battlestar Galactica.

It never had that effect before; in the original Night of the Living Dead, the Venus Space Probe radiation was accepted; similarly, the zombie-creating chemicals in the army canisters of Return of the Living Dead were never questioned. They merely provided an understandable reason for the dead rising--a natural question from audiences and characters.

Sure. We have to shift the notion of what a "good guy" is and it pretty much comes down to ancient, tribal, human stuff but there's still certainly a moral boundary. And killing in a manner of self defense is still better than killing people as a show of power and in order to rob them; robbing in of itself a moral boundary.

Running into Officer Lamson with a speeding car, then blowing his brains out shatters any "moral boundaries," as it was unjustified. Rick is cop with cop driving experience, so he could have passed Lamson and quickly blocked him, much in the way Dawn's cops did the same to Noah. Rick was not interested in exercising that option, or waiting for Lamson to simply run out of hos own options, particularly since a person with bound hands cannot move as fast as one who is free.

And I also wouldn't say Rick is quite as bad as Shane yet either. They may share some of the same philosophy now, but Shane was also untrustworthy and hot-headed and someone willing to kill people of his own group if they didn't go along (or if he just happened to want their wife). And I know I would certainly rather have Rick as my leader than Shane.

Rick instantly obsessed on married Jessie, and continued to find reasons to increase his hatred of Pete, including stroking the handle of his gun when all Pete was doing in that moment was talking to Rick. Pete's domestic violence was Rick's excuse to push himself toward the idea of killing. He was as obsessed with Jessie as Shane was with Lori, and the moment Deanna said "do it," he did not hesitate to execute Pete. He knew what his end-game was. Add his being utterly oblivious to how the murder of Pete might inspire hatred from one or both of his sons.

Rick actually thought Ron's brief interactions meant he was accepting of the overall situation, and seemed surprised to see Ron aiming a gun at him in "No Way Out." That appeared to be Rick convincing himself that there would be no repercussions to killing Pete--which (ultimately) cost Carl his eye.

Remember when everyone thought Enid was working with the Wolves. I'm starting to think they were half right.

Yes, that is a lingering mystery that has to be revisited. Her half revelation in "JSS" ("that's how we were able to...") either meant the Wolves, The Saviors, or...the Kingdom? Enid is an interesting character, and I like how she challenges Carl. I would hope she does not turn out to be an enemy.

 

[theenglish]

It never had that effect before; in the original Night of the Living Dead, the Venus Space Probe radiation was accepted; similarly, the zombie-creating chemicals in the army canisters of Return of the Living Dead were never questioned. They merely provided an understandable reason for the dead rising--a natural question from audiences and characters.

Okay, and if the answer is that it is a punishment from God? Would that be enough?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Okay, and if the answer is that it is a punishment from God? Would that be enough?

I would think so, even if some of the audience resented the idea of God and/or having an impact on humankind--the point would be that there is some cause that characters would seek to uncover, even if they conclude it was the End Times. Even in "TS-19," Jenner's CDC group tried to learn why the plague happened, but no one can rule out anything so unique to human history as the cause.

 

[Vandervecken]

Okay, and if the answer is that it is a punishment from God? Would that be enough?

That's what I always thought the idea was with Romero's zombies, which makes them supernaturally powered and so they can go on just about forever with no reason to question their doing so. As long as "God did it," it's all good.

But non-supernatural zombies shouldn't work, period, never mind the decay destroying them. For starters, without water, muscles don't work; in fact no chemical reactions of any kind happen in organic creatures outside of an aqueous medium, the activation energies might as well be infinite, and of course there is no hydrostatic pressure of any kind. They don't have functioning digestive systems (some of them have NO digestive systems) and most of them don't get a meal anyhow. They don't have functioning circulatory systems to disperse nutrients and oxygen, and they don't have functioning respiratory systems to take in O2, necessary for any aerobic metabolism (and if they are somehow anaerobes, no way they're producing enough energy to move as much as they do). Jenner never touched on how these bodies can work and that's because there is no way. No virus, prion, or bacterium (none of which he ever called it) can make perpetual motion machines out of smashed systems and dead, dessicated tissue.

Ya gotta just suspend disbelief. But remembering this does help me not worry about shadows at bedtime after watching WD.

 

[theenglish]

I would think so, even if some of the audience resented the idea of God and/or having an impact on humankind--the point would be that there is some cause that characters would seek to uncover, even if they conclude it was the End Times. Even in "TS-19," Jenner's CDC group tried to learn why the plague happened, but no one can rule out anything so unique to human history as the cause.

I bring this up because people were so upset with both Lost and Battlestar Galactica. Regarding TWD though, it makes perfect sense that we don't get an explanation because other than the first season episode there aren't any scientists around.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Rick was defiant at the Terminus kill floor because he thought they were all going to die there anyway, regardless. Why not tell hipster Gareth that you're going to hack him to pieces? You literally have nothing to lose, since you have already lost it.

Rick was obviously overwhelmed with what was happening during the Negan reveal, however keeping quiet was the smart move there. Negan was only going to kill one of them, and I'm sure that the rest of the group will be allowed safe passage once that is over, since they all "work" for him now. Any outburst of bravado by Rick or anyone else would probably have led to more of the group being killed.

Also, just wondering if Rick thought there was a possibility of escape/fight. There were only 2 guards. This was after the claimers, right? So a possibility of fighting.


But with Negan's men -- absolutely no way. And knowing his best people were captured.... no way out of this... even with Carol & a rocket launcher.

I would be willing to bet that any explanation as to why the zombies exist would be controversial at best. What would you prefer:

1. A government designed virus.
2. Alien invasion.
3. The result of something ancient released because of climate change.
4. God's will (my personal preference).

Really, any explanation will just cause more debate like it did with Lost or Battlestar Galactica.

I personally think it's a vriant of the nanites from "Revolution" -- the nanites are the "virus" that keep people moving after death, and "fix" the body to survive and make the death bacteria.

If the Saviors are so strong and well-coordinated, it does make you wonder why they didn't take over Alexandria sooner. Or capture any of our people during their many excursions and supply runs outside it's walls.

Unless maybe Negan's group hadn't made it's way to that area yet? Or they just didn't think Alexandria had anything worthwhile?

Or their boarder didn't reach that far yet. @grendelsbayne said it before, Daryl and co. drove for miles before running into them.

And factor in ... if there are very FEW groups surviving... what are the odds of them coming to the same place at the same time? In addition to distance, time is another factor

Okay, and if the answer is that it is a punishment from God? Would that be enough?

I would think so, even if some of the audience resented the idea of God and/or having an impact on humankind--the point would be that there is some cause that characters would seek to uncover, even if they conclude it was the End Times. Even in "TS-19," Jenner's CDC group tried to learn why the plague happened, but no one can rule out anything so unique to human history as the cause.

Well then why can't you just accept it as God... and like God with Job, he might not reveal what actually happened. Definitely not to the characters in the story

And let's not forget... this is simply about our heroes' own survival....and not about them defeating the virus. At this point, it's not about the virus, it's about surviving, especially from other humans'





----


And y'all, i am disappointed we didn't see who was killed. That's just mystery we don't need dragged on. I am sick of MoviePilot posting what my or may not be spoilers.

Unlike the other "cliffhangers"... this was disappointing. The Terminus cliffhanger set-up the next season pretty decently (though also disappointing that Terminus/Hunters was done in like 4 episodes). The ending with Morgan walking in on Rick was really good. The "mystery" ws one worth pondering on over the summer -- how will new Morgan and killer Rick co-exist. I forget, but was it after the season started that we were wondering if Rick & Morgan would fight? Certainly by the time the season was underway, it was Morgan and Carol (who now have moved from their previous positions in varying ways).

I mean, yeah it sets up war with Negan (especially when we get the Kingdom) so next season's story is set. But we were waiting for someone to die. Just let us spend the summer mourning...and then let that actor be free to pursue other opportunities and spend the summer promoting it. (Unless they are helping that actor by waiting until the production is almost ready for release?)