The Walking Dead Season 4

[bbjeg]

I liked the episode. I kept thinking "when is Brian going to murder someone" and just as I thought "maybe they'll make him a changed man because we expect him to kill someone", he kills someone.

The Governor killed Martinez the moment Martinez suggested that they should share leadership duties because Martinez wasn't sure he could handle the role entirely by himself. The Governor was fine taking orders from someone who was capable of leading and willing to do whatever it takes to survive (in his sick, twisted perspective), but the moment they expressed any self-doubt or weren't willing to raid and kill other camps for their supplies he killed them without hesitation. Like most villains, he doesn't think of himself as evil or killing just because he enjoys it; he feels his actions are justified for the greater good. He's got a very consistent set of rules about what he considers right and wrong, they're just really warped.

How do you justify gunning down a crowd?

Honestly, Martinez should have known better. During that scene where Martinez is leading in the woods and letting Brian trail behind, I thought he was an idiot for giving him the open shot. Plus, he shouldn't have shown any sign of weakness in front of the Ex-Governor who guns down crowds for submissiveness.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The Governor killed Martinez the moment Martinez suggested that they should share leadership duties because Martinez wasn't sure he could handle the role entirely by himself. The Governor was fine taking orders from someone who was capable of leading and willing to do whatever it takes to survive (in his sick, twisted perspective), but the moment they expressed any self-doubt or weren't willing to raid and kill other camps for their supplies he killed them without hesitation. Like most villains, he doesn't think of himself as evil or killing just because he enjoys it; he feels his actions are justified for the greater good. He's got a very consistent set of rules about what he considers right and wrong, they're just really warped.

How do you justify gunning down a crowd?

I don't justify it at all. I'm looking at things from the messed up perspective of the Governor.

As to how he justifies it, I don't see why you'd be so mystified, since you gave the same reason as I did in your next paragraph:

Honestly, Martinez should have known better. During that scene where Martinez is leading in the woods and letting Brian trail behind, I thought he was an idiot for giving him the open shot. Plus, he shouldn't have shown any sign of weakness in front of the Ex-Governor who guns down crowds for submissiveness.

He killed Martinez for showing self-doubt. He killed his retreating followers for showing cowardice. He's the ultimate follower of the principle of survival of the fittest, and anyone who is not up to his standards of fitness is a danger to the rest of the group and must be eliminated. It's just with the Woodbury raiders, he went nuts and killed half the town.

I'm not saying the guy is right or smart in the way he handles things. He's completely crazy, and manages to repeatedly kill off or alienate his best fighters and scavengers, which is not a sustainable plan for preserving a community. I'm just trying to show how he justifies the horrific nature of his actions to himself.

 

[kitik]

The only interesting thing this episode showed us was that there's still plenty of human groups out there, & they are actually wiping each other out, which is an even worse aspect to the end of civilization

Yeah, I forgot I wanted to mention that scene too. There are 2 possibilities:

1- The Governor killed them all while supposedly out on the hunting trip. That's how he knew to go back and check on them of course. Pete and Mitch obviously didn't hear the raid in the first place, so it's not like they'd have any idea whether it was him or not. Didn't the Governor have some extra barbed wire later on in the episode too, after he took over the group?


2- Killers abound in the TWD world. If that's the case, and people really are just out there killing other people, then the Governor is just some normal guy. If everyone is in the kill-to-survive mode, then the Governor is the norm, and the folks at our prison are the exception. That's a bit of a scary thought, as it certainly doesn't bode well for the future of humanity.


Whoever raided that camp, be it the Governor or some other group, why in the world didn't they make sure that everybody was dead (including "stabbed in the brain" dead)? Leaving survivors or dying people who will later turn into zombies to chase you is not a good idea. Would the other unseen group of people have been pressed for time? I doubt it. But the Governor would have, as he'd have been in a rush to get back to Pete and Mitch at some predetermined time and place. So if it was a rush job, he may have been the guilty party.

 

[kitik]

I am "disappointed" that it looks like his character arc took him into a circle so he's back where he started -a mustache twirling bad guy who's an evil killer just 'cause. Hopefully the conflict at the prison will end with the fall of the prison and the Governor's death and the series can get a little "back on track."

I get what you're saying about it just feeling like a circle, and you're right. However, he's not just an evil guy out for revenge anymore, he's got a family to protect, and that makes him feel even more dangerous.

We saw that he doesn't necessarily even want to do what he's doing, but he feels forced into it.

While you're right about it feeling like a circle, I do think it makes him a more compelling antagonist.

 

[PKerr]

I think next week's episode will go down pretty much how it does in the comics.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

So did Not!Maggie get her hair died darker while The Governor was in the Biter-Pit? It looked significantly different in this episode.

Not sure about your question but I see the resemblance to Maggie isn't just in my head.

 

[Trekker4747]

So did Not!Maggie get her hair died darker while The Governor was in the Biter-Pit? It looked significantly different in this episode.

Not sure about your question but I see the resemblance to Maggie isn't just in my head.

Yeah, she looks a little like Maggie, maybe like a slightly older version of her or something. But I'm almost certain last week her hair was brunette/lighter in color and then in this episode as soon as we see Martinez pull The Governor out of the Biter-Pit her hair is suddenly black. I guess one of his men had a bottle of hair dye with him and she made a quick change. It was sort of jarring like we Actual!Maggie suddenly met Rick at the gate and she had apparently put a lovely auburn mist through her hair.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

He killed Martinez for showing self-doubt. He killed his retreating followers for showing cowardice. He's the ultimate follower of the principle of survival of the fittest, and anyone who is not up to his standards of fitness is a danger to the rest of the group and must be eliminated. It's just with the Woodbury raiders, he went nuts and killed half the town.

I'm not saying the guy is right or smart in the way he handles things. He's completely crazy, and manages to repeatedly kill off or alienate his best fighters and scavengers, which is not a sustainable plan for preserving a community. I'm just trying to show how he justifies the horrific nature of his actions to himself.

He kills for whatever whim keeps the ego/evil going. There was no "survival of the fittest" in mortally wounding Milton--so he in turn could transform into a walker and (attempt to)murder Andrea. Similarly, survival was not the reason he murdered the helicopter pilot--or his comrades. Sending Merle's death party after Michonne also had nothing to do with survival, as she was one person--seemingly with no other connections (read: potential enemy camps/threats) other than Andrea, yet he wanted her to die.

He's vindictive, petty (recall his story about his job in the pre-zombie world), and is exactly what you would see if a man who was ignored by the world suddenly found himself in any sort of position of command: abuse and death.

 

[Thestral]

I think next week's episode will go down pretty much how it does in the comics.

Agreed, sadly.

Spoiler: Comics

Put Beth in Lori's role. Same fate for the Governor - we even have Lily. Hershel and Beth and Judith aren't a very large bodycount, but it'll be a gut-punch and I don't see them getting rid of Tyrese already. Can't think of any other majors that might be killed off; Glen maybe? He hasn't had much to do in awhile...

I'd love to be wrong about this of course, especially Beth and Judith since Beth keeps being written right on the verge of having some real focus...

Mid-season break is Rick and Carl fleeing in terror, with no idea what's happened to the others. End of the first episode back maybe, they run into other survivors... or Carol? Or both.

Alternately, the "smokescreen" idea could work and we cut with the tank slamming a hole through their fortifications to pick up the carnage when it comes back... but it just seems less likely.

Unsurprising that the Governor's back to his old tricks, didn't take long either.

 

[RJDiogenes]

These past two episodes have been really good. After his bout with mega-PTSD, it seems the Governor was really trying to get his act together. When he killed Martinez, he kept saying "I don't want it," and it seems he really may have had a blackout. I wonder what would have happened if they hadn't run into that big puddle o' zombies; of course, the fact that he didn't try very hard to find an alternate route is pretty telling. I don't know what he's thinking coming after the prison with his new disciples, though-- they aren't exactly a bunch of hardasses.

And in these two episodes we've got at least four camps of humans within driving distance of the prison. Suddenly the Zombie Apocalypse seems more crowded than it did before.

 

[Morpheus 02]

These past two episodes have been really good. After his bout with mega-PTSD, it seems the Governor was really trying to get his act together. When he killed Martinez, he kept saying "I don't want it," and it seems he really may have had a blackout. I wonder what would have happened if they hadn't run into that big puddle o' zombies; of course, the fact that he didn't try very hard to find an alternate route is pretty telling. I don't know what he's thinking coming after the prison with his new disciples, though-- they aren't exactly a bunch of hardasses.

And in these two episodes we've got at least four camps of humans within driving distance of the prison. Suddenly the Zombie Apocalypse seems more crowded than it did before.

The others seem to be in tents or trailers...so this must be the time of the Gathering In the end, there can be only one!

One crazy plotline idea...there is some massive community out there that has gathered a few thousand people...but the flu and/or raiders will come & create a new generation of Walkers.

 

[DarthTom]

He's vindictive, petty (recall his story about his job in the pre-zombie world), and is exactly what you would see if a man who was ignored by the world suddenly found himself in any sort of position of command: abuse and death.

One thing that was interesting about this episode is when the Governor packs up his new, "family," and tries to leave only to be stopped by the zombies in the mud and turns around to finish off the other guy - he obviously is self aware enough of how crazy he his to try to escape but cannot.

As an aside, I think it's awesome that they added two gay characters - the lesbian couple - to the mix of characters. They are a little bit of a stereotype however as two ex - military ladies and both, 'butch.' But I'll take it nonetheless.

 

[sojourner]

Only one is military. The sister attended police academy but didn't finish due to zombies.

 

[Trekker4747]

I wouldn't call either lady "butch" beyond them just being strong willed which, given the conditions they're living in, isn't that much a thing.

 

[Galileo7]

These past two episodes have been really good. After his bout with mega-PTSD, it seems the Governor was really trying to get his act together. When he killed Martinez, he kept saying "I don't want it," and it seems he really may have had a blackout. I wonder what would have happened if they hadn't run into that big puddle o' zombies; of course, the fact that he didn't try very hard to find an alternate route is pretty telling. I don't know what he's thinking coming after the prison with his new disciples, though-- they aren't exactly a bunch of hardasses.

And in these two episodes we've got at least four camps of humans within driving distance of the prison. Suddenly the Zombie Apocalypse seems more crowded than it did before.

Agree.

Based on this, I think a yet unseen group will be a greater threat that will ultimately unite both Rick and the Governor against a common enemy.

 

[Teelie]

I think it's more likely the Governor will capture Hershel and use him as his "or else" ultimatum and probably kill him as either a warning or a result of something the Prison group tries to do.

 

[PKerr]

The Walking Dead Season 4 Has Finished Filming


http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/11/24/the-walking-dead-season-4-has-finished-filming/

 

[propita]

"Brian" didn't like it when Lily said that this camp was the first time she felt safe since everything started. He felt minimized in her eyes. Then when Martinez treated him as a lackey with the gold balls...last straw.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Yeah, I noticed his reaction when she said that. He must be the one to keep everyone safe.

 

[trekkiebaggio]

These two episodes have been pretty useless. As a character study it is somewhat interesting, but it was just 2 hours of watching The Governor turn into the character he was to begin with. He could have shown back up without them and the net effect on the overall story would be zero.

Yep, definitely. This episode was better and more worthwhile than the last one thought. I was excited to see Enver Gjokaj in the cast but then...well.

I was disappointed with Martinez's decisions. He seemed a lot smarter and more capable last season, he didn't seem the type to blindly trust The Governor so easily, and his rationale for keeping him alive was weak.

Before this season I would have thought Glenn was safe, but now I can see him dying. I don't think it will have the same impact had he died in last season though.