The Walking Dead Season 4

[Venardhi]

These two episodes have been pretty useless. As a character study it is somewhat interesting, but it was just 2 hours of watching The Governor turn into the character he was to begin with. He could have shown back up without them and the net effect on the overall story would be zero.

 

[kitik]

I really enjoyed the dead family in the woods, with headless corpses scattered throughout with various notes attached of an accusatory nature. And then follow that up with that surreal scene with all the walkers trapped in that quagmire of a road, preventing the Governor from moving on. Talk about a message from God! The whole thing felt very biblical. He was not being given any other options but to do that which had been right in front of him the whole time.


A reading from the Book of Phillip, Chapter 7, Verse 12: And God gave him a tank.

 

[EmoBorg]

Talk about a message from God! The whole thing felt very biblical. He was not being given any other options but to do that which had been right in front of him the whole time.

A reading from the Book of Phillip, Chapter 7, Verse 12: And God gave him a tank.

Looks like the biblical God has plans for the Governor to be a bad guy again.

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, I liked these last couple of episodes, found them to be fun and interesting and I say this as someone who's not a big fan of The Governor character or is looking forward to his being back.

I am "disappointed" that it looks like his character arc took him into a circle so he's back where he started -a mustache twirling bad guy who's an evil killer just 'cause. Hopefully the conflict at the prison will end with the fall of the prison and the Governor's death and the series can get a little "back on track."

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I really enjoyed the dead family in the woods, with headless corpses scattered throughout with various notes attached of an accusatory nature. And then follow that up with that surreal scene with all the walkers trapped in that quagmire of a road, preventing the Governor from moving on. Talk about a message from God! The whole thing felt very biblical. He was not being given any other options but to do that which had been right in front of him the whole time.

All events could have been a message, but they are the middle of the countryside, and i'm sure there were other roads to take.

I find it funny that a few WD fans thought the Governor was somehow humanized by this new family--specifically Penny 2.0. He's a mass murderer (among other sickening things), and how many times do we need to see this soulless creature use everyone for his own gain (usually ending in torture and death for others) before it is accepted that he is truly evil?

He's not Merle (11th hour change of heart). He's just a mass murderer, and all of the surrogate family fantasies in the world cannot change that.

 

[TheSeeker]

Why did the Governor kill Martinez ? I don't get it. Martinez took him and his new family in and even gave them a home.

Because Martinez knew him from the old days and was starting to bring it up too much in front of The Governor's new family. Obviously the Governor doesn't want his new family to know about his past.

 

[Mojochi]

He called her pumpkin this week. How long before he just mistakenly calls her Penny?

I got to say, I kind of fall in with the naysayers this week. I sort of wish they'd given us something back at the prison this episode. One episode or 1 & a half would've been enough to cover this Gov. story. Who really gives a crap about Auntie Tara's new love interest? They could have lost that whole bit. Nobody even cares about Tara yet. She's one episode old. When she's dead, I'll just remember her as the fist bump girl. Hell, they only matter in that the Gov. cares about them, & even he only cares about them in a disturbed surrogate kind of way. They are not real characters yet

Next week looks to be the big confrontation. That means. It's likely Carol's return will get postponed now, & Daryl's reaction to Carol being gone will get glossed over or usurped by the new problem. Those ARE real characters we're all invested in, & getting on with their story is more important to the viewer

How the Gov. gets his new Merle is of no real consequence. We kind of all knew he would, & I for one never got sold out of the Gov. being a ruthless man, & buying him redeeming himself. I always knew we were just waiting for the timeout to be over & his 2nd wind to get going

Look at it like this. Had they just started this episode with a cold open of the Gov. standing over the pond & the walker Martinez and Shumpert were at the bottom of it, struggling like Pete was, so that it was obvious that The Gov had taken the group, how much would we really have missed? Then they could have split the episode with an explanation of the Gov's situation & gotten something in about the prison group too, like screen time for Daryl, post carol exile

The only interesting thing this episode showed us was that there's still plenty of human groups out there, & they are actually wiping each other out, which is an even worse aspect to the end of civilization

 

[sojourner]

I think the preview for next week was a smoke screen. The confrontation with the governor will be a cliffhanger at the end of the episode and we'll spend most of the episode dealing with our group at the prison.

 

[Mojochi]

^To some degree, probably yes, but I suspect there'll still be some conflict happening between the two, if not full blown skirmish

 

[Silvercrest]

These two episodes have been pretty useless. As a character study it is somewhat interesting, but it was just 2 hours of watching The Governor turn into the character he was to begin with. He could have shown back up without them and the net effect on the overall story would be zero.

I find it funny that a few WD fans thought the Governor was somehow humanized by this new family--specifically Penny 2.0. He's a mass murderer ... and how many times do we need to see ... that he is truly evil?

He's not Merle (11th hour change of heart). He's just a mass murderer, and all of the surrogate family fantasies in the world cannot change that.

I am "disappointed" that it looks like his character arc took him into a circle so he's back where he started -a mustache twirling bad guy who's an evil killer just 'cause.

We were supposed to think it was an arc where he was humanized again, and then fell again. Actually he was the same character the whole time. Martinez thought he had changed too, but he hadn't. Martinez didn't know him well enough.

Unlike Martinez, we were given some insight into what drives him. He's a twisted, disturbed, mass-murdering individual all right, but he's also more than just a mustache-twirling villain.

Basically: when he "cares about" someone, it brings out some sort of paternal/protective behavior to a totally obsessive degree. It's like throwing a switch. He becomes capable of doing anything in order to take care of that person. He has no remorse for his actions and he knows they're wrong, but he justifies his actions because of this protective monomania. Whether he can feel actual love is open for debate, but even if he does, he probably thinks he owns that person. (Maybe not just people, either... you could make the argument for the whole Woodbury community, too.) Fortunately, he has a massive amount of charm he can call on to cover up his inconsistencies.

That's why he suddenly stuffed his surrogate family in the car and ran ... the camp was not safe enough. He finally decided the best option to protect them was to kill Pete and take over the camp.

It's also exactly how he behaved with Zombie Penny. Obsessive love mixed with massive denial and probably some delusions of grandeur too.

You take away whatever he's protecting, and he loses any semblance of rationality, which is what happened at the end of last season.

And in his "off" moments, he's REALLY off. Again, it's like turning off a switch. He becomes just short of catatonic. Obviously we saw it in the last episode, but that's also how he behaved when he was sitting in front of his walker aquarium.

Why did the Governor kill Martinez ?

Because Martinez knew him from the old days and was starting to bring it up too much in front of The Governor's new family. Obviously the Governor doesn't want his new family to know about his past.

Why did the scorpion sting the frog?

No, he had made the decision that Martinez was the wrong person to lead the camp (thereby putting his surrogate family at risk). That's why he was murmuring objections while he was killing Martinez. Either he couldn't accept Martinez as leader or he couldn't accept sharing leadership, which was what Martinez had just offered.

 

[sojourner]

Not sure why you quoted me with your "no". Unless you're unfamiliar with the fable.

 

[Galileo7]

Why did the scorpion sting the frog?

Agree.

I think the preview for next week was a smoke screen. The confrontation with the governor will be a cliffhanger at the end of the episode and we'll spend most of the episode dealing with our group at the prison.

Agree.


Speculation: We found the heads, but I am wondering if the three headless 'army' guys corpses are part of a larger group of rogue living army troops that might have slaughtered that small group of people for supplies. I am also wondering if this yet unseen group will be introduced and create a greater threat that will unite Rick and the Governor.

 

[Silvercrest]

Not sure why you quoted me with your "no". Unless you're unfamiliar with the fable.

I'm about as familiar with it as Chakotay is.

I was only pointing out that it's more than just his nature. He has a reason for doing what he does, even though his reasons are sick and twisted.

 

[marillion]

These two episodes have been pretty useless. As a character study it is somewhat interesting, but it was just 2 hours of watching The Governor turn into the character he was to begin with. He could have shown back up without them and the net effect on the overall story would be zero.

I find it funny that a few WD fans thought the Governor was somehow humanized by this new family--specifically Penny 2.0. He's a mass murderer ... and how many times do we need to see ... that he is truly evil?

He's not Merle (11th hour change of heart). He's just a mass murderer, and all of the surrogate family fantasies in the world cannot change that.

We were supposed to think it was an arc where he was humanized again, and then fell again. Actually he was the same character the whole time. Martinez thought he had changed too, but he hadn't. Martinez didn't know him well enough.

Unlike Martinez, we were given some insight into what drives him. He's a twisted, disturbed, mass-murdering individual all right, but he's also more than just a mustache-twirling villain.

Basically: when he "cares about" someone, it brings out some sort of paternal/protective behavior to a totally obsessive degree. It's like throwing a switch. He becomes capable of doing anything in order to take care of that person. He has no remorse for his actions and he knows they're wrong, but he justifies his actions because of this protective monomania. Whether he can feel actual love is open for debate, but even if he does, he probably thinks he owns that person. (Maybe not just people, either... you could make the argument for the whole Woodbury community, too.) Fortunately, he has a massive amount of charm he can call on to cover up his inconsistencies.

That's why he suddenly stuffed his surrogate family in the car and ran ... the camp was not safe enough. He finally decided the best option to protect them was to kill Pete and take over the camp.

It's also exactly how he behaved with Zombie Penny. Obsessive love mixed with massive denial and probably some delusions of grandeur too.

You take away whatever he's protecting, and he loses any semblance of rationality, which is what happened at the end of last season.

And in his "off" moments, he's REALLY off. Again, it's like turning off a switch. He becomes just short of catatonic. Obviously we saw it in the last episode, but that's also how he behaved when he was sitting in front of his walker aquarium.

Because Martinez knew him from the old days and was starting to bring it up too much in front of The Governor's new family. Obviously the Governor doesn't want his new family to know about his past.

Why did the scorpion sting the frog?

No, he had made the decision that Martinez was the wrong person to lead the camp (thereby putting his surrogate family at risk). That's why he was murmuring objections while he was killing Martinez. Either he couldn't accept Martinez as leader or he couldn't accept sharing leadership, which was what Martinez had just offered.

That's basically it.. Interviewed about the scene, DM comments that it was Martinez's admitted weakness that forced the Governor's hand.

 

[Trekker4747]

So did Not!Maggie get her hair died darker while The Governor was in the Biter-Pit? It looked significantly different in this episode.

 

[JD]

^I was wondering about Marinez's murder too. I thought it was just that he lost it when he started talking about their past.
Overall, I thought this one was better than last weeks, but still not quite as good as the rest of the season up to this point. It just feels like we could have gotten all of the necessary stuff a lot quicker than we did.

 

[MPH]

On him killing Martinez its because he wants to be in charge!!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The Governor killed Martinez the moment Martinez suggested that they should share leadership duties because Martinez wasn't sure he could handle the role entirely by himself. The Governor was fine taking orders from someone who was capable of leading and willing to do whatever it takes to survive (in his sick, twisted perspective), but the moment they expressed any self-doubt or weren't willing to raid and kill other camps for their supplies he killed them without hesitation. Like most villains, he doesn't think of himself as evil or killing just because he enjoys it; he feels his actions are justified for the greater good. He's got a very consistent set of rules about what he considers right and wrong, they're just really warped.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

^To some degree, probably yes, but I suspect there'll still be some conflict happening between the two, if not full blown skirmish

Whether the conflict begins early, or ends the mid-season finale, I hope this is not replay of the assbrained Governor attack in the season 3 finale, as he should have learned military weapons and vehicles--even with a couple of ex-soldiers present--does not make a successful fighting force.

Moreover, the tank is not small arms; it causes the kind of destruction which--if aimed at the prison walls--would make overtaking the prison pointless, and an open door for armies of walkers.

By the way, where is Penny 2.0 going to be during the fight? The Governor will not leave her back at his camp, so what will he do? Use her as a prop to call Rick on his assumed no surrender/to the death stand?

Regarding Carol, I think her Han Solo/"you're all clear, kid!" return moment will be reserved for the second half of the season, when Rick's side is close to checking out of the world.

 

[Stiletto]

The Governor killed Martinez the moment Martinez suggested that they should share leadership duties because Martinez wasn't sure he could handle the role entirely by himself. The Governor was fine taking orders from someone who was capable of leading and willing to do whatever it takes to survive (in his sick, twisted perspective), but the moment they expressed any self-doubt or weren't willing to raid and kill other camps for their supplies he killed them without hesitation. Like most villains, he doesn't think of himself as evil or killing just because he enjoys it; he feels his actions are justified for the greater good. He's got a very consistent set of rules about what he considers right and wrong, they're just really warped.

Absolutely!