The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

[sojourner]

It always annoyed me, and I love zombie movies/fiction, that zombies seem to stop eating almost as soon as the heart of the victim stops beating. In most portrayals we see very few zombies showing the effects of sustained eating of their body.

Zombies are finicky damn eaters.

 

[Caliburn24]

Not a bad way to start the second season. But there are two things I think the show really needs to work on.

1) Establish how the Walkers work on all levels. I know the writers don't want this because it will hem them in storywise. But it needs to be done for the good of show. Last season our heroes had to cover themselves in Walker guts to avoid detection, now they just duck under cars and put Walker bodies on top of themselves?

Create some consistent rules for the Walkers, decide how they work physically/mentally whatever. It doesn't need to be expounded on in an episode, but have it on a white board in the writer's room so that they are all on the same page. Be consistent, don't keep winging it. This is a long-form zombie show, not a one-off movie.

2) The characters(or at least one or two of them) need to be more likable. As of the season two premier all four female members of the group are horribly stupid and annoying, with Andrea being far and away the worst. You want to commit suicide? Do it.

The seven male characters don't fare much better. The two cops are acting incompetent. The boy is an idiot, except for his desire to arm himself. Token Black guy came across okay, except for somehow cutting himself on a car door. Old guy, Asian guy and Redneck guy came across best, mostly because they had almost no lines and relatively little to do, and were fairly competent.

Give us someone to root for. Right now I find it hard to sympathize with anyone(your mileage may vary of course). A little black humor would go a long way. I suppose Rick is the main character, and the one we should rooting for, but he is so bland and passive.

 

[PsychoPere]

1) Establish how the Walkers work on all levels. I know the writers don't want this because it will hem them in storywise. But it needs to be done for the good of show. Last season our heroes had to cover themselves in Walker guts to avoid detection, now they just duck under cars and put Walker bodies on top of themselves?

They also had to walk directly past the walkers during the scene from season one that you're referring to. Here, "out of mind, out of sight" so long as no blood and no sound occurred was enough, and I don't see why pulling a dead body on top wouldn't work - it's still the same smell issue as before. See a previous post of mine for some of Robert Kirkman's thoughts on this.

 

[sidious618]

I thought the premiere was the best episode since the pilot although not as good as the pilot. This show really delivers on atmosphere, twists and scares but not so much when it comes to characters. None of them really grab me outside of Andrea and that's mostly because Laurie Holden is a fantastic actress.

 

[Sindatur]

I thought the premiere was the best episode since the pilot although not as good as the pilot. This show really delivers on atmosphere, twists and scares but not so much when it comes to characters. None of them really grab me outside of Andrea and that's mostly because Laurie Holden is a fantastic actress.

I lost symapthy for Andrea here, Dale has saved her several times now, and wants to adopt her and father her, she was wrong to be so abusive. I like the short haired actress, from the Mist (the mother of the missing girl?).

Darryl, last season, he was mostly too abrasive and I wanted to see him eaten, but, I really loved him in this episode being a team player. Darryl is one of my favorite characters now, and he was real near the bottom early last season.

I really liked Glen throughout S1, hope he gets some time up front next week

 

[sidious618]

I lost symapthy for Andrea here, Dale has saved her several times now, and wants to adopt her and father her, she was wrong to be so abusive.

I don't know, I understood where she was coming form. Timeline wise her sister died two days ago, too, so I have to cut her slack for that. I'm not saying she was right in what she did but she doesn't have to be in order to be an interesting character.

 

[Sindatur]

I lost symapthy for Andrea here, Dale has saved her several times now, and wants to adopt her and father her, she was wrong to be so abusive.

I don't know, I understood where she was coming form. Timeline wise her sister died two days ago, too, so I have to cut her slack for that. I'm not saying she was right in what she did but she doesn't have to be in order to be an interesting character.

Oh sure, I can forgive her easily, if she realizes what's she's doing (She doesn't have to admit it, just has to straighten up), but, if she continues down this road, I'm gonna wanna dismiss her.

 

[marillion]

As for the Catholic thing... Most Christian churches all use the cross, but unless I'm mistaken, it's only Catholicism (and perhaps Eastern/Greek Orthodox) that uses the actual "Christ on the Cross" icon in their churches... At least that's what I was taught in my RCC upbringing... I would be very surprised to see that in a Baptist church...

I give them a break with this incontunity because I think there was supposed to be a lot of irony happening praying to the dead Jesus on the cross who was re-born. Or perhaps I'm reading too much into that imagery?

No, i'd say it's appropriate....i mean technically, you culd say Jesus was a zombie -- He rose from the dead!

Darth Tom, i'd say your surprise would be justified...

I agree completely... The imagery and it's placement in the show are completely appropriate.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Re: sights and smells, I'm okay with concluding that the zombies go on sight first off and if they're unsure, they take a good whiff. THEY smell pretty bad in the first place, so who knows, they may have to put a bit of effort into it.

Mark

 

[Agent Richard07]

Here's a reposting of that article from last year...

7 Scientific Reasons a Zombie Outbreak Would Fail (Quickly)

And another one...

5 Scientific reasons a Zombie Apocalypse Could Actually Happen

 

[Silvercrest]

Like I said: Blast their noses with some kind of concentrated oil or essence. Then how would they smell?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Well, I loved the premiere. I was impressed that 90 minutes mostly spent looking for a lost girl in the woods could be so gripping.

Also happy about the ratings. I've been worried that people would forget the show, given the short run last year and long hiatus. This and Sons of Anarchy are my two favorite shows on TV now.

Is it my imagination, or are the Southern accents more prominent this season, in particular from Rick and Lori? (Not sure if they're accurate though - Rick in particular sounds generic cornpone, not specifically Georgian.)

The first scene, with Rick leaving a message for Morgan, struck me as odd in context with the theory that the scientist told him Lori was pregnant. Why would Rick hesitate to tell Morgan about that?

I think the news was something more startling, and something that could impact Morgan - and everyone - directly. I'm sticking with my zany theory that the scientist told Rick that he's infected with the zombie virus, which might be something of extreme importance (is Rick immune? if some people are naturally immune, that's huge news!) but is also too fantastical to believe. He'd want to tell Morgan something like that, but then decide, nah, why get the guy's hopes up, it must be bullshit or a mistake.

Speaking of Morgan, I wonder if they're going to bring him and his son back into the show at some point?

Agreed. The exchange between Andrea and Dale I thought was very well acted where she blamed him for not allowing her to committ suicide.

Yeah, good scene. She seemed ingrateful, but then again, Dale stole her chance to commit suicide in a quick way, where she isn't forced to actively do something, like pull a trigger, which she might not be able to do when it comes down to it. That might have been her best chance to get out of a living nightmare, and eventually they might all regret not staying to die in the explosion.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Well, I loved the premiere. I was impressed that 90 minutes mostly spent looking for a lost girl in the woods could be so gripping.

Also happy about the ratings. I've been worried that people would forget the show, given the short run last year and long hiatus. This and Sons of Anarchy are my two favorite shows on TV now.

Is it my imagination, or are the Southern accents more prominent this season, in particular from Rick and Lori? (Not sure if they're accurate though - Rick in particular sounds generic cornpone, not specifically Georgian.)

The first scene, with Rick leaving a message for Morgan, struck me as odd in context with the theory that the scientist told him Lori was pregnant. Why would Rick hesitate to tell Morgan about that?

I think the news was something more startling, and something that could impact Morgan - and everyone - directly. I'm sticking with my zany theory that the scientist told Rick that he's infected with the zombie virus, which might be something of extreme importance (is Rick immune? if some people are naturally immune, that's huge news!) but is also too fantastical to believe. He'd want to tell Morgan something like that, but then decide, nah, why get the guy's hopes up, it must be bullshit or a mistake.

Speaking of Morgan, I wonder if they're going to bring him and his son back into the show at some point?

Agreed. The exchange between Andrea and Dale I thought was very well acted where she blamed him for not allowing her to committ suicide.

Yeah, good scene. She seemed ingrateful, but then again, Dale stole her chance to commit suicide in a quick way, where she isn't forced to actively do something, like pull a trigger, which she might not be able to do when it comes down to it. That might have been her best chance to get out of a living nightmare, and eventually they might all regret not staying to die in the explosion.

Yeah, or the scientist told him that the lab was already crawling with the virus. The more they cover themselves in zombie guts, hide under bodies, and splatter blood all over the place when hacking up zombies, the more it gets harder and harder to believe that they're not all immune carriers.

And that by the way is an argument to keep people in the group from "opting out". They'll need to be adopting the Laura Roslin strategy of making babies pretty soon.

 

[sojourner]

Spoiler: regarding what Morgan said.

In the comics everyone is infected. You just don't turn unless you die.

 

[DarthTom]

Re: Zombie Science, that's just it - most zombie movies don't HAVE to worry about that stuff, since the movie's over in two hours. Here we have an opportunity to really take a good look at how the world will remain dangerous in a reasonable time frame. It's been (I think) less than two months since the outbreak in story time, and the population has already been decimated - we just aren't seeing much of the people who've been made into neural chow, where we probably SHOULD be seeing many more skeletons and remains of the devoured. I believe that the comics establish the changes in zombie behaviour and ability as the rot and winter set in, but that may be spoilerish.

One thing that's always been unclear to me about all zombie flicks - both this one and on the big screen - is how walking dead people could successfully overtake armed living people with guns, flame throwers, drones, and even nuclear weapons.

Why wouldn't after the government realized that the world was falling apart would they mass exterminate the problem with more devastating weapondry?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Spoiler: regarding what Morgan said.

In the comics everyone is infected. You just don't turn unless you die.

Interesting. But if that were the case in the show, then

Spoiler: comics spoiler

Rick really does need to warn the gang that even if someone dies of natural causes, they will turn. T-Dog could have died from blood loss in this episode, and then bitten the people who were trying to help him. Rick isn't necessarily going to be around when something like that happens. Even if it's only a possibility, he needs to tell people. Since he hasn't told the gang that very important information, and he isn't a careless or stupid person, I assume it isn't the case in the show.

One thing that's always been unclear to me about all zombie flicks - both this one and on the big screen - is how walking dead people could successfully overtake armed living people with guns, flame throwers, drones, and even nuclear weapons.

I still wonder why they haven't ransacked every sporting goods store they can find to stock up on crossbows and teach every adult how to use one competently. Most of the time, they don't dare use guns, and hand to hand combat with zombies strikes me as a very unwise habit, which is bound to eventually result in disaster. So forget using a hatchet, it would probably be a better idea to just run.

They should also go over some likely zombie-fighting scenarios so that everyone knows their role in case of an attack, such as standing in a rough circle and staying aware of the position of everyone else to avoid accidental friendly fire incidents, and not emerging from a sheltered area without first checking to see if you're in someone's crosshairs.

Taking guns away from people and leaving them unarmed is a very bad idea, if only from the viewpoint of morale, and in this scenario, morale is a huge factor. Bad morale can break up the group and lead to fights and suicides. I certainly would not want to run around unarmed. Giving everyone a crossbow and training them on the basics is the only sensible route.

Although everyone should be armed with crossbows for self-defense, they also need guns to use if they find themselves in a no-way-out situation, to commit suicide quickly. Lori and Carol, who are in charge of the children, should also be prepared to kill them quickly if needed, and always have at least two bullets to spare. For Lori and Carol, of all people, to run around unarmed is just irresponsible. They also need to be honest with themselves regarding their ability to kill their own children and if there's any doubt about it, Carl and Sophia should be under the care of another adult who can. Maybe Lori and Carol should simply swap babysitting duties.

This group continues to act in accordance with gender roles that are very much irrelevant at this point. I guess that's realistic - they aren't going to be able to snap out of old habits without some effort - but wow, it's actually pretty scary when you start to dig into it. No wonder Andrea was pissed.

 

[DarthTom]

Taking guns away from people and leaving them unarmed is a very bad idea, if only from the viewpoint of morale, and in this scenario, morale is a huge factor. Bad morale can break up the group and lead to fights and suicides. I certainly would not want to run around unarmed. Giving everyone a crossbow and training them on the basics is the only sensible route.

Agreed. Shit here in the South specifically ATL where the story is based your local Wal*Mart store has enough amunition to arm several batallions. And Wal*Mart stores are as prelevant around here as McDonalds.

But part of the story is to make the zombies on equal if not upper footing with the living to make it interesting.

It just seems unlikely to me that our infrastrusture would collapse because the undead were out to get the living with all of the bunkers and protected enviornments that would allow people to sheild themselves from zombies.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I think there must be lots of people still out there, in bunkers and various protected locations. We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of that.

When Lori and Rick were talking about their abortive trip to the Grand Canyon, it occurred to me that that might not be a bad idea. Head for someplace that had low population density, like Arizona or Utah. The desert might be problematic in terms of water, but at least it's fairly warm. Coastal areas would have the best weather and water supply, but too many damn zombies.

 

[sojourner]

Spoiler: regarding what Morgan said.

In the comics everyone is infected. You just don't turn unless you die.

Interesting. But if that were the case in the show, then

Spoiler: comics spoiler

Rick really does need to warn the gang that even if someone dies of natural causes, they will turn. T-Dog could have died from blood loss in this episode, and then bitten the people who were trying to help him. Rick isn't necessarily going to be around when something like that happens. Even if it's only a possibility, he needs to tell people. Since he hasn't told the gang that very important information, and he isn't a careless or stupid person, I assume it isn't the case in the show.

.

Your missing the point, if they are following the comic in regards to what I put in spoiler code, then that's not the information that Morgan whispered to him.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Morgan is the guy from the premiere played by Lennie James. I can't recall if he whispered anything to Rick, but I was talking about what the CDC scientist whispered to Rick. His name was Jenner.

Morgan came into the picture because Rick was leaving a message for him (which he may or may not ever hear). Rick was almost going to tell Morgan what Jenner whispered, and then decided not to. That whole scene struck me as significant, and provides a clue about what Jenner whispered: something that Rick might think Morgan should know, and then change his mind about. Why would he do that, unless it's something startling and important, but also unbelievable?

And they're obviously not hewing to the comics, since Shane is still alive. They might take some stuff from it, but and leave other stuff out. So the comics are irrelevant to making predictions about what is or isn't going to happen in the series.

And my theory is different than what you put in spoiler code anyway, so I don't see how it's even relevant to this discussion.