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Spoilers The supporting cast

Really? Raffi the drunkard? Jurati the
murdering,
silly comic "doctor"? Fascinating how some shitty characters from a few episodes of this show to someone can appear more favorable than the good, fleshed out characters from a 150+ episodes of an iconic Trek show. But who am I to argue about your (bad) taste.

Well fleshed out characters like.....

Sulu?

Uhura?

Rand?

Maybe Mayweather?

Kim?

How much do we really know about Riker when it comes down to it?

We know more about Raffi from these few episodes than we've ever found out about Chekov in over fifty years.

In fairness we got to know Wesley pretty much inside out, not to mention Barclay . Yup, way too well many would say.
 
how do you judge that, what is your assessment based on?

On keen observation, what do you think it's based on? On a scientific study?
The woman is a terrible actress, cringy, unconvincing, contrived (over)acting. Her character and that dreadful "JL"-ing is equally bad. Excuse me for being so blunt, but that's how it is. Ask other viewers with keen observation and assessment of acting performance if you don't believe me. To you, I accept the possibility entirely, her terrible acting may appear as good, or even great. Some people even love melodramatic soap operas, you know.

We know more about Raffi from these few episodes than we've

We know she is an alcohol and drug addict. She's a lame ex-Starfleet officer living in a trailer in a desert, lamenting that she had been "fired" by Starfleet, and, apparently such a close, close friend to Picard, that she can call Picard "JL". That's what we know about her. I need not know more. No thanks.
 
On keen observation, what do you think it's based on? On a scientific study?
The woman is a terrible actress, cringy, unconvincing, contrived (over)acting. Her character and that dreadful "JL"-ing is equally bad. Excuse me for being so blunt, but that's how it is. Ask other viewers with keen observation and assessment of acting performance if you don't believe me. To you, I accept the possibility entirely, her terrible acting may appear as good, or even great. Some people even love melodramatic soap operas, you know.



We know she is an alcohol and drug addict. She's a lame ex-Starfleet officer living in a trailer in a desert, lamenting that she had been "fired" by Starfleet, and, apparently such a close, close friend to Picard, that she can call Picard "JL". That's what we know about her. I need not know more. No thanks.
That's all too silly to take seriously.
 
What Tuskin said, opinions vainly pretending to be facts.

Wait, opinions? Let us look at it again... Raffi is:

-an alcoholic - check
-drug user (addict?) - check
-living in a trailer in a desert - check
-a close, mucho, mucho close friend of Picard... - check
-and calls him "JL" all the time - check

How are those not facts?
 
Wait, opinions? Let us look at it again... Raffi is:

-an alcoholic - check
-drug user (addict?) - check
-living in a trailer in a desert - check
-a close, mucho, mucho close friend of Picard... - check
-and calls him "JL" all the time - check

How are those not facts?
Doesn't make Hurda bad actress or Raffi bad character. Your opinions, though, are not worth considering.
I don't find it particularly interesting to take part in a discussion on a show that I consider to be so utterly bad.
That is a thought you might apply more broadly.
 
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Doesn't make her a bad actress or a bad character.

Her acting is another pair of shoes. One needs to differentiate the actress (her acting skills and how convincing he or she is, and how naturally and spontaneously he or she is able to bring his or her emotions across) and the character herself.
Here, both leave much to be desired. If you ask me, a 24th/25th century character ought to know better than drown his/her sorrows in alcohol and vape drugs, which so characteristic of our present time. We wish to see some future, not more of the present. At least I do, I don't know about you.
 
I've never been a huge fan of Michelle Hurd, but she is great as Raffi. I wish the show had more time for character development, because I think Hurd would knock it out of the park.
 
Seriously, I'm just happy we once again have a Star Trek series where people aren't flawless, squeaky-clean, sanitized cardboard cutouts. TOS, TNG, VOY and ENT (I've left DS9 out intentionally) needed the characters to be as bland and static as possible so that we could concentrate on the sci-fi high concept of the episodes instead of them. Really, if Crusher was in focus, it generally wasn't because of her character but because the episode was a 24th century medical drama and we needed a doctor. But in a story that has been telegraphed from its conception to be about the character of Jean-Luc Picard and people he has a connection with, you can't really do that.

I'm glad to see all kinds of characters who are battling their personal demons, Picard included. I like how Raffi's obsession with Romulan conspiracies had cost her her job and alienated her from her family, sending her down the path of withdrawal from society (not unlike Picard, I might add) and substance abuse. I loved to see the flashback with her and Picard and how him giving up visibly broke her inside. The broken pedestal was written all over her face.

I like how Rios, while seemingly just a Han Solo-like rogue on the surface, is actually an ex-Starfleet officer deeply wounded by the loss of his captain and is using bleak existentialist books and holograms based on himself as a really unhealthy way to cope with that as well as how Starfleet swept all of it under the rug.

I like how Seven, after four years of listening to Janeway's spiel about regaining her humanity through altruism and supporting each other, has, upon returning home, realized how it's all empty talk and how it's only true when you are looking out the window of Starfleet Command into Paradise, and how disconnected the civilized core of the galaxy actually is from the lawless fringe where people still struggle, causing her to ditch the creature comforts of Earth for a life of actually going out and helping people... and I love (as in "I think it's good storytelling", not that I want her to suffer) how the most profound betrayal of her trust and the death of Icheb, who she has treated as her own son, has left her so utterly bitter and broken, consumed by revenge. And even so, she still appreciates Picard's morality and idealism enough to spare him from seeing what she knows to be the unfair reality of the frontier.

I've loved Jurati so far for her energy and being adorably scatterbrained, how she seemed (until Episode 5) determined to help Picard out even while completely terrified of what Oh had shown her, how she used her penchant to annoy people by her rambling to try to get under Rios' skin and get to know him, and I'm quite interested in seeing the fallout from her murder of Maddox, not only how the others are going to find out, but also how she herself copes with it, because she was trembling with fear when doing it, and is probably going to be utterly disgusted by herself.

Elnor is just plain adorable with his childlike glee at seeing the others practicing a ruse and always speaking his mind, and I especially loved how dejected he was when he asked Picard, a parental figure who had abandoned him 14 years ago, why he needed him on this quest, and got a defensive rationalizing explanation instead of something personal.

And while many people don't like the Romulan siblings, and I'm still not quite sold on what Narek's game is, I've found Rizzo's character to be quite interesting, to be honest, because she seems to be a deeply disturbed person who's used to terrorize her brother to keep him under her control, and she's just creepy, smug and snake-like enough to make me want to see her be a constant thorn in our heroes' sides. Really, I just love to hate her. As for the other Romulans, I love Zhaban and Laris' loyalty that doesn't prevent them from speaking their mind to Picard, and I'm partucilarly fond of Laris' raw, fiery emotionality, especially when she keeps bickering with Zhaban even as they're interrogating an assasin or when she almost explodes when Picard tells her he's going to space.

Whew, that was a lot. But I really like this supporting cast, what can I say.
 
We know she is an alcohol and drug addict. She's a lame ex-Starfleet officer living in a trailer in a desert, lamenting that she had been "fired" by Starfleet, and, apparently such a close, close friend to Picard, that she can call Picard "JL". That's what we know about her. I need not know more. No thanks.

Whereas Chekov we know....

That he turned up one episode, had a Russian accent, a haircut like a popstar and running gag about claiming things were invented in Russia.

Whether you personally like her or not is another matter, but the suggestion our familiar faces from years gone by were "well fleshed out" characters has as much accuracy as your recent claim that alcoholism and drug abuse had no place in the setting, despite the opening credits of the first TOS pilot having the captain of the Enterprise drinking spirits on duty to escape from the pressures of the job, with his doctor.
 
Her acting is another pair of shoes. One needs to differentiate the actress (her acting skills and how convincing he or she is, and how naturally and spontaneously he or she is able to bring his or her emotions across) and the character herself.
Here, both leave much to be desired. If you ask me, a 24th/25th century character ought to know better than drown his/her sorrows in alcohol and vape drugs, which so characteristic of our present time. We wish to see some future, not more of the present. At least I do, I don't know about you.
You're equating the Character's Flaws (Raffi) with the Actors Performance (Ms Hurd) and then apparently attempting to say the latter is is poor due to the former.

When in actuality what your post indicates is that you have been convinced that Raffi does indeed have said flaws, due to your insistence that a 24th Century Star Fleet Officer wouldn't behave that way.

Thus Ms. Hurd must be a most convincing and talented Actor to have fooled you into believing that Raffi does actually have said flaws, to the point where you proclaim that belief to this forum.

At this point, I'm not sure your really even paying attention to how the conversation is going and just like to hear yourself rant.
:rolleyes:
 
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...despite the opening credits of the first TOS pilot having the captain of the Enterprise drinking spirits on duty to escape from the pressures of the job, with his doctor.

I'm well aware of that. And of Scotty's preference for the bottle. That, however, was occasional enjoyment of spirits, usually during social occasions. Besides, those are from TOS (23rd century), and this is post-TNG (24th/25th century). Here she is clearly hooked on alcohol (and some sort of drug). Picard even brings a bottle to get her to help him. Later she is seen working on that ship and on a console there are numerous bottles of alcohol. And 7 of 9 seems to have succumbed to alcoholism as well. Why do those writers (I will try to control myself and not write "hacks" this time) think it's a good idea to depict ST characters - of the 24th century - as being prone to some of the most typical addictions and issues of our present time? You'd think alcoholism would be thing of the past in the 24th century. And it would make sense. People are never perfect, of course, not even in the 24th century (we had Tom Paris, for example), but some of the plagues of the 20th and 21st century should have been eradicated by that time. People of the future ought to know better than seek refuge in alcohol. Is this Kurtzman's vision of the Trek future?
 
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I'm well aware of that. And of Scotty's preference for the bottle. That, however, was occasional enjoyment of spirits, usually during social occasions. Besides, those are from TOS (23rd century), and this is post-TNG (24th/25th century). Here she is clearly hooked on alcohol (and some sort of drug). Picard even brings a bottle to get her to help him. Later she is seen working on that ship and on a console there are numerous bottles of alcohol. And 7 of 9 seems to have succumb to alcoholism as well. Why do those writers (I will try to control myself and not write "hacks" this time) think it's a good idea to depict ST characters - of the 24th century - as being prone to some of the most typical addictions and issues of our present time? You'd think alcoholism would be thing of the past in the 24th century. And it would make sense. People are never perfect, of course, not even in the 24th century (we had Tom Paris, for example), but some of the plagues of the 20th and 21st century should have been eradicated by that time. People of the future ought to know better than seek refuge in alcohol. Is this Kurtzman's vision of the Trek future?

Where has it ever been stated that alcoholism has been eliminated as a social problem by the 24th century?
 
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