The strangest thing about Picard…

[The Habs Fan]

… is that Season 2 and Season 3 had the exact same writers and showrunner.

What exactly happened here? Now, I should preface this that I am not a season 2 hater, it has its moments and is better binged than watching weekly, but season 3 is on an entire other level. They even filmed both of these seasons back to back, so it’s not like they reset things based on people’s reactions to season 2. Even the writer of Monsters is also the writer of Seventeen Seconds. It’s miraculous that season 3 turned out the way it did.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

I'm guessing season 3 went under "fanboy showrunner is holding all the reigns and can finally do exactly what he wants".

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I think when it comes to the scripts it's probably the plot rather than the writing that let season 2 down. If I recall correctly, a lot of that was Akiva Goldsman's idea and Terry Matalas was more focused on season 3, so there were at least two very distracted captains steering the ship that year. Matalas' season 3 had tight arcs that each built up to a payoff, while season 2 felt like it was spinning its wheels trying to come up with anything for its characters to do.

Season 2 also had the worst of the Covid complications to deal with, had to film in present day locations, and barely got to use the elaborate starship sets being constructed for season 3, so it had a lot of disadvantages. Sometimes limitations breed creativity, in this case they just made it feel limited.

Also season 3 just gave people a lot more of what resonated with them as it has a lot more of Star Trek: The Next Generation in its recipe. If someone's a fan of Jean-Luc Picard, chances are they're a fan of the rest of TNG as well, so fans loved hanging out on a starship again and every episode that brought a classic character back was an event for them.

 

[The Habs Fan]

I have seen the Akiva Goldsman season 2 theory floated around here before, but he seemed less involved in season 2 than season 1. For example, Goldsman directed no episodes of season 2, but directed 2 in season 1. The only episodes that Goldsman has credits for writing in season 2 are the first 2 episodes and the season finale. All of which are co-written with someone else and are generally seen as the 3 best episodes of the season.

also, when watching the special features, Matalas seems like the central producer making decisions on things for season 2.

Maybe the more likely explanation is a combination of the Covid restrictions you mentioned above and maybe Patrick Stewart’s storytelling conditions. We got the better season once Patrick Stewart relented to a tng reunion.

but still, it’s kind of crazy to have two seasons, filmed back to back with the same writing staff, be of such differing quality.

 

[Firebird]

Compounding the problems for season 2 of Picard is that there was an entirely different version of the season that had been written and got junked due to Covid and executive meddling.

 

[James Cole]

… is that Season 2 and Season 3 had the exact same writers and showrunner.

What exactly happened here? Now, I should preface this that I am not a season 2 hater, it has its moments and is better binged than watching weekly, but season 3 is on an entire other level. They even filmed both of these seasons back to back, so it’s not like they reset things based on people’s reactions to season 2. Even the writer of Monsters is also the writer of Seventeen Seconds. It’s miraculous that season 3 turned out the way it did.

Akiva Goldsman was effectively the co-showrunner of season 1. Goldsman has said season 1 was Michael Chabon and his, season 2 was his and Matalas, and season 3 was Matalas.

The season went through multiple permutations, which then ran into the buzz saw of executive interference and Covid restrictions. Nine episodes were written before filming even began, but those were all binned.

Matalas only had day to day involvement with the first half of the season, and, while he may have held the rank of co-showrunner during season 2, Akiva Goldsman outranked him the entire time. It would have been Goldsman revising scripts and finalizing postproduction in the edit bay.

Also, not all the writers came back... Juliet James in particular, the co-writer of the divisive episode 204.

also, when watching the special features, Matalas seems like the central producer making decisions on things for season 2.

I think that's more a case of delegation.

 

[Lord Garth]

I loved the first six episodes of Season 2, then I noticed a drop afterwards, even at the time before I knew what was going on. So, I think Terry should've been heavily involved in the entire season. His half was better. It went from "This is amazing!" to "That was okay, I like this part, I wish they did more here... "

"Monsters", "Mercy", and "Hide and Seek": those are the three back-to-back-to-back episodes I have in mind. That's where the dip was, IMO. Then "Farewell" picks things up again.

I've seen the season in full three times, so that's how I break down the quality. I think the bad is what most people remember about Season 2, which is why they're surprised when I rate it so highly. "An 8 out of 10?" someone asked me once, and some other people reacted badly to. Yeah. I'm looking at the whole season, not just that few episodes' dip.

 

[donners22]

Doesn't seem particularly strange at all; the seasons both strike me as interesting ideas which had their moments but ultimately lost their way, and I don't see that much difference in quality between them.

Even if there was a big difference in quality, that's not unusual either - for instance, Ira Behr and Hans Beimler went from one of the best Trek episodes (The Magnificent Ferengi) to one of the worst (Profit & Lace) in a matter of weeks.

 

[James Cole]

"Monsters", "Mercy", and "Hide and Seek": those are the three back-to-back-to-back episodes I have in mind. That's where the dip was, IMO. Then "Farewell" picks things up again.

One crazy thing too is Terry talked about how there was a change in Paramount executives mid-season 2 which caused even further revisions to their plans, and that he was effectively watching the tail end of the season as a fan.

I think it's relatively safe to say that when the season began filming, Jurati was already slated to be assimilated by the Borg Queen and Rios was not coming back from the 21st century (otherwise why even introduce the Argentinian doctor as a love interest plot). Confederation Laris traveling back with them had already been nixed, but the "Assignment: Earth" connection was there from the very beginning (unless Terry was misremembering that it was pitched by Chabon -- who departed way back in February 2020).

I keep thinking back to why Q was so angry with Picard in "Penance". There really had to be something more there. And FBI Agent Wells must be a stub of a nixed plotline.

If plans suddenly hit a brick wall, it's easy to see how Akiva Goldsman could have stalled the plot a bit by leaning far more into Picard's traumatic childhood using the chateau standing sets.

Even if there was a big difference in quality, that's not unusual either - for instance, Ira Behr and Hans Beimler went from one of the best Trek episodes (The Magnificent Ferengi) to one of the worst (Profit & Lace) in a matter of weeks.

Later DS9 really does occasionally suffer from Behr's self-indulgence... especially with the Ferengi episodes and Vic Fontaine.

And the Vulcan baseball episode. My god. That's the only DS9 episode I've never rewatched since the original run.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I think the season need to be broken into miniarcs (like ENT S4) to be properly appreciated.

Eps. 1 and 2 with Q and his test

Eps. 3 through 6, with the LA arc building to the Europa gala, along the introduction of Adam and Kore Soong.

Eps .7 through 9, with an exploration of Picard’s mind to reveal his childhood trauma, and the final act of the Borg Queen.

Ep 10 with the finale, which ties all three previous arcs together.

Maybe this understanding will help others be more emotionally moved by the season, as a few viewers managed to do.

 

[DonIago]

I think the only way I could begin to have much appreciation for S2 overall would involve Our Heroes spending far less time in the 21st century. The future interests me, the Confederation interests me, seeing "Star Trek" characters wandering around almost present-day Earth for several episodes in a row bores me. If I want to watch a series set in the present-day, I have a plethora of other options.

 

[Phoenix219]

Compounding the problems for season 2 of Picard is that there was an entirely different version of the season that had been written and got junked due to Covid and executive meddling.

i would absolutely LOVE to see the outlines or scripts for what was SUPPOSED to happen....

 

[TedShatner10]

"Monsters", "Mercy", and "Hide and Seek": those are the three back-to-back-to-back episodes I have in mind. That's where the dip was, IMO. Then "Farewell" picks things up again.

I personally think "Watcher", "Two of One", and "Monsters" were episodes that nearly tanked the most contentious series of Picard, with Stewart's self-indulgence and weird plot pacing.

At least "Hide and Seek" had action and plot resolutions saving it.

Season 2 was also awkward an "bridge" where they dumped off Rios into river (wrapped up in a potato sack after being blugeoned).

 

[Lord Garth]

Season 2 was also awkward an "bridge" where they dumped off Rios into river (wrapped up in a potato sack after being blugeoned).

I wouldn't go that far. Wrote him out of the series, yes. But Rios can still show up if some Star Trek production ever time-travels back to the 21st Century again. Something I wouldn't rule out since every Star Trek series has some form of time-travel eventually.

 

[James Cole]

I wouldn't go that far. Wrote him out of the series, yes. But Rios can still show up if some Star Trek production ever time-travels back to the 21st Century again. Something I wouldn't rule out since every Star Trek series has some form of time-travel eventually.

Just think of all the 12 MONKEYS characters that were killed off yet came back. Hell, a backdoor was probably pitched in conjunction with the decision to write off Rios.

 

[BillJ]

Both seasons are pretty bad. So, I have no trouble believing they were made by the same folks.

 

[Yistaan]

Just think of all the 12 MONKEYS characters that were killed off yet came back. Hell, a backdoor was probably pitched in conjunction with the decision to write off Rios.

Rios could've beamed back on board the Enterprise-E offscreen during the events of First Contact. Given that he'd be 40 years older and then adding the decades between First Contact and Picard, he'd be VERY old not to mention lying low while his younger self was running around.

Still don't know how Shaw could've been resurrected.

 

[James Cole]

Still don't know how Shaw could've been resurrected.

Borg nanoprobles a la Neelix in "Mortal Coil" -- granted that would open the can of worms over how that significant of a breakthrough couldn't have been later used with Lt. Carey or the crew members killed by the "Equinox" aliens, let alone post-return to Earth. Granted, looking at the EAS Voyager crew casualty list, the body count rate does drop substantially after mid-season 4, so who knows?

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

… is that Season 2 and Season 3 had the exact same writers and showrunner.

What exactly happened here? Now, I should preface this that I am not a season 2 hater, it has its moments and is better binged than watching weekly, but season 3 is on an entire other level. They even filmed both of these seasons back to back, so it’s not like they reset things based on people’s reactions to season 2. Even the writer of Monsters is also the writer of Seventeen Seconds. It’s miraculous that season 3 turned out the way it did.

I think the easiest way to approach Picard as a series is to think of it less like 3 seasons and more like 3 miniseries, similar to how Mike Flanagan made 5 miniseries for Netflix.

S1 = Old man Picard, androids, Romulans, ex-Borg, oh my!
S2 = Q, Bizarro World, CSI: Picard, quick ending.
S3 = Remember that wacked out S2 ending? Oh, look, it's the TNG gang!

 

[StarTrek1701]

Still don't know how Shaw could've been resurrected.

Khan's blood from ST:ID.