Spoilers The Strange New Worlds Starship Thread™

[Phoenix219]

Yeah we've seen no evidence that First Contact really changed anything and plenty of evidence (Deep Space Nine, Voyager, In a Mirror Darkly, These are the Voyages...) that the timeline is just as we saw it. We definitely got no evidence or even hints that First Contact caused the Temporal Cold War.

Well I, for one, can't think of any better reason for it to suddenly pop into existance. YMMV of course.

There have been more than a handful of ways that post FC lore has completely contradicted TOS and original TNG lore, and this is a very simple explanation, that is already there in the narrative, that explains literally anything that can be complained about.

IMO, the NX01 was only named ENTERPRISE because of First Contact, and it was saved from destruction to repurpose its mission to ensure the founding of the Federation after the events of F.C. completely screwed up the future. This all happened, 4th dimensionally, in the blink of an eye, in the instance before the "E" returns to its present, by the time of which things have mostly course corrected, with the 22nd and 23rd centuries taking the brunt of the butterflies.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Because it makes sense that if you upscale the ship by almost 50% it would ripple going forward, starting with the refit. So this timeline/universes 1701-A is gonna be bigger by roughly 15-18m. So the size of the Excelsior class increases, the Excelsior refit increases on top of that, etc.

Only if it contradicts anything. Whenever we've seen the Enterprise A and Excelsior together, or the Hood and Enterprise D, it's been hard to tell the relative size of the ships precisely. The Excelsior class is clearly bigger than one and smaller than the other, but we can't really pin the size of it down. And it doesn't help that Trek isn't always consistent with its scaling.

I mean here's a slightly stitched-together shot of the Enterprise D (presumably) directly in line with the Stargazer, which clearly shares some parts with the Enterprise and Reliant. We actually can use this shot to judge the size of the ship:

That's a roughly 450m Stargazer. If you scaled the Enterprise to match, it'd be close to the same length.

Well I, for one, can't think of any better reason for it to suddenly pop into existance. YMMV of course.

There have been more than a handful of ways that post FC lore has completely contradicted TOS and original TNG lore, and this is a very simple explanation, that is already there in the narrative, that explains literally anything that can be complained about.

I don't think it's that weird that the Temporal Cold War would only really be a thing in the series all about the lead up to the formation of the Federation. If you're a time traveller and you want to utterly remove a rival faction, preventing its creation would do the job. Also I just finished watching Enterprise and it doesn't actually contradict much, besides from the first contact with the Klingons and the appearance of cloaking devices.

 

[Galaxy]

I really like the new interior, and I think I am going to LOVE the new LCARS, the colours of the sets really pop. The bridge looks cool, except for all those lights shining into ones face.

Less of a fan of the exterior. I would have preferred a more canon look. This Enterprise has a really rough hewn look to it that I do not like. Also I can not get over the windows on the edge of the saucer.

 

[Paul755]

I can reconcile it fine.

Great. I can’t. I’m not saying either of us is wrong or right just YMMV. And for me, I can’t see the look of the Discoprise (inside and out) evolving into what we see in TMP-Nemisis.

Only if it contradicts anything. Whenever we've seen the Enterprise A and Excelsior together, or the Hood and Enterprise D, it's been hard to tell the relative size of the ships precisely. The Excelsior class is clearly bigger than one and smaller than the other, but we can't really pin the size of it down. And it doesn't help that Trek isn't always consistent with its scaling.

I mean here's a slightly stitched-together shot of the Enterprise D (presumably) directly in line with the Stargazer, which clearly shares some parts with the Enterprise and Reliant. We actually can use this shot to judge the size of the ship:

That's a roughly 450m Stargazer. If you scaled the Enterprise to match, it'd be close to the same length.

TNG was bad at showing relative size comparison. Like that picture you posted. No way that is that the correct scale for those two classes. But I think they do a good job in TUC of showing the 1701-A and Excelsior. It’s a believable comparison.

 

[fireproof78]

Great. I can’t. I’m not saying either of us is wrong or right just YMMV. And for me, I can’t see the look of the Discoprise (inside and out) evolving into what we see in TMP-Nemisis.

Then what do you do with it? Treat as garbage? Not True Trek? Alternative Universe? Reboot? Refresh? Rewind?

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

TNG was bad at showing relative size comparison. Like that picture you posted. No way that is that the correct scale for those two classes.

I always thought it was wrong myself, because it contradicted the sizes I'd read for the Enterprise and Enterprise D, but the more I've looked into it the more it seems like they actually got it right. I mean compare the windows on the the Stargazer with those on the D: they line up. You could argue that they have different deck heights and there's zero reason that can't be true, but it's another clue hinting at a 400+ meter TOS Enterprise, and there's very little on screen that points towards a smaller ship.

 

[Paul755]

Then what do you do with it? Treat as garbage? Not True Trek? Alternative Universe? Reboot? Refresh? Rewind?

From a visuals and design perspective, I’m team alternate universe. The “Not true Trek” stuff is dumb. And I think there is a bit of a misconception. Despite treating it as an alternate universe, I think the designs and all that are fantastic. I really like what they are doing. My brain just tells me it doesn’t fit with what came before. That there is no way the Enterprise D would not have a 4 deck tall sickbay if the Connie Class had a 2 decker, etc.

It reconciles for you and the majority of others and that’s great. More power to you. And I don’t say that sarcastically. I really not trying to argue that you are wrong or should think my way. As I said…YMMV.

I always thought it was wrong myself, because it contradicted the sizes I'd read for the Enterprise and Enterprise D, but the more I've looked into it the more it seems like they actually got it right. I mean compare the windows on the the Stargazer with those on the D: they line up. You could argue that they have different deck heights and there's zero reason that can't be true, but it's another clue hinting at a 400+ meter TOS Enterprise, and there's very little on screen that points towards a smaller ship.

I dunno, I look at the whole bridge area and it looks bigger than what the D has. But it’s so tough to tell because there isn’t a true 1:1 comparison shot.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

My brain just tells me it doesn’t fit with what came before. That there is no way the Enterprise D would not have a 4 deck tall sickbay if the Connie Class had a 2 decker, etc.

I'm still at the 'I can make this work if I just think hard enough!' stage. Like, we see several shots of the SNW Enterprise sickbay and most seem to be one deck tall, making me think that the medical emergency is going to cause them to expand to a bigger space. People have always assumed that the Enterprise D sickbay set is just a tiny part of a much bigger facility, so there's every possibility it has rooms just as big. Though it probably has that space spread out on the same deck instead of spanning multiple levels, because that big gap in floor isn't entirely necessary. Probably.

I dunno, I look at the whole bridge area and it looks bigger than what the D has. But it’s so tough to tell because there isn’t a true 1:1 comparison shot.

The Enterprise D bridge is tricky because it's sunken into the deck and the top of the hull conforms to the shape of the ceiling instead of it being covered by a dome.

 

[NCC-73515]

I really like the new interior, and I think I am going to LOVE the new LCARS, the colours of the sets really pop.

I think LCARS started with TNG, perhaps with TUC, but TOS had something else. Kelvin interfaces were called PCAP, I think the TOS and ENT ones never were given a name.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Here's a question... if we're assuming the Enterprise is scaled up by roughly 50% to a length of 442m from the previously established length of 289m, and that's now the canonical design in-universe per Picard, does that mean we're scaling up all previous TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY ship designs by the same amount? I'm kind of okay with a 975m-long Enterprise-D, given that Discovery is (a frankly absurd) 780.5m, and much longer than the D's canonical length of 642m.

Season 2 of Picard has a background picture of a TOS-style Connie (an SNW style one was designed but not used), and they appear in Lower Decks and Prodigy (next to the Discovery!) as well. It's whatever the producers feel like at the time, I think.

The days of size comparison charts or deck plans having any meaning at all are long gone. Everything's malleable, it's like each show is an adaptation now not a continuation.

 

[Tomalak]

I'm really comfortable with a larger TOS Enterprise - I don't think there's anything on the show that really contradicts a 442m ship.

The problem is the knock-on effect on the TMP Enterprise which was more tightly designed and has clearly defined features like the docking bays and the travel pods. But even that ship has sets like the TMP hanger/cargo complex, the rec deck and torpedo bay that would better fit in a larger ship.

But I'm pretty relaxed about this stuff now. I'm just enjoying the shows. SNW has a great visual aesthetic.

 

[Tosk]

One advantage of the new Enterprise...it means the refit isn't quite as radical a redesign as it used to be.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

The ship can't go 5 years without a radical redesign.

 

[publiusr]

That top pic is the kind of visuals I LOVE in Trek!

They paid attention to The Lensman and his work with novel art, perhaps

 

[starfleettanner]

Sometimes they might need to treat a 12 foot tall alien or a giant Spock clone.

HA! Got that reference...

 

[Stuart Wilson]

I prefer the 442m ret-con to the size, it makes the jump to larger ship sizes more believable given the limited technological changes between TOS and TNG. It also pushes up the size of the Miranda and Excelsior classes. this eliminates the huge jump in size between the Excelsior and Ambassador classes. You don't really see this until you look at scale models of the two together. look at the 1/2500 model kits and it's really apparent how much bigger the Ambassador is. Also it you increase the Excelsior to match the new Connie it takes it up to about 660m making it about the size of the Sovereign class and therefore the Sovereign could be the replacement for the aging Excelsior. Given the number of Sovereigns in Picard S2 (8) this would explain the numbers as a lot of Excelsiors would need replacing. Scaling in most of the SFX shots was patchy at best so I don't put too much store in them.

As far as the interior goes, I don't make models of the inside so I don't care! More realistically You can't expect production values of a modern TV show to keep the same ones they had in the 80s and 90s. As long as it isn't too egregious like the turbolift tubes in Discovery S3 or the decks in ST V, I can live with it.

 

[Vale]

I prefer the 442m ret-con to the size, it makes the jump to larger ship sizes more believable given the limited technological changes between TOS and TNG. It also pushes up the size of the Miranda and Excelsior classes. this eliminates the huge jump in size between the Excelsior and Ambassador classes. You don't really see this until you look at scale models of the two together. look at the 1/2500 model kits and it's really apparent how much bigger the Ambassador is.

The classic TOS configuration of Constitution-class has a volume of ~212,000m³.
The movie refit has a volume of ~235,000m³.
The original configuration Excelsior has a volume of ~874,000m³.
The original configuration Ambassador has a volume of ~2,872,000m³.

In terms of ratio, the Excelsior is ~4.1✕ the volume of the original Constitution and 3.7✕ the volume of the refit, and the Ambassador is ~3.3✕ the volume of the Excelsior. So the step up from Constitution to Excelsior is still larger than the step up from Excelsior to Ambassador – "My god, that's a big ship" indeed – but it's important to remember that a LOT of the Ambassador's extra volume was in a hugely expanded saucer. The Excelsior's saucer, in comparison, is not much larger than a refit Connie's, with most of its extra volume being in the secondary hull and nacelles.

Still important to remember though that the Ambassador is comfortably the largest Starfleet ship we've seen in the 24th century after the Galaxy- and Nebula-classes. She's even bigger than the Sovereign (~2,429,000m³).

 

[Jesse1066]

I made this last year and never shared it anywhere. I didn't want a longer Excelsior than the Ambassador, so I made them the same length. I also didn't like the idea of the Constitution having a larger saucer than the Excelsior, so I shrank it to 400 meters. That might be why I never shared it anywhere.

In any case, there's definitely room to enlarge the Constitution and Excelsior classes while leaving everything else alone.

 

[fireproof78]

That there is no way the Enterprise D would not have a 4 deck tall sickbay if the Connie Class had a 2 decker, etc.

Definitely a mileage will vary situation because I don't see how one leads to the other.

 

[Markonian]

I made this last year and never shared it anywhere. I didn't want a longer Excelsior than the Ambassador, so I made them the same length. I also didn't like the idea of the Constitution having a larger saucer than the Excelsior, so I shrank it to 400 meters. That might be why I never shared it anywhere.

In any case, there's definitely room to enlarge the Constitution and Excelsior classes while leaving everything else alone.

Glad you shared it. The larger sizes on the Connie and Excelsior look good alongside the NX, Amby and Galaxy.