• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers The Story & the Engine grade and discussion thread

How do you rate The Story & the Engine?


  • Total voters
    36
Here's how someone can find that RTD's second era is less enjoyable than even the disappointing Chibnall run:
This should be fun.
The Woman Who Fell to Earth vs The Star Beast - RTD2 did well but stumbled at the end, winner Chibnall
Nuts. While the Chibnall episode is alright (maybe the most inoffensive episode off the bat) but its also patently boring and largely uneventful for most of it, whereas the RTD2 one is fun, paced well, with a returning companion to rival the energy of all companions since Clara left (arguably maybe even when she left) and a villain that is far more entertaining and fun and believable villainy (helped by the fact she's voiced by a real-life islamophobe, as an aside) while the self-serious Tim has all the menace of the John Cleese-portrayed equivalent from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

The Star Beast clearly takes it because it has to balance the difficult task of re-introducing David Tennant while establishing him as post-Whitaker and resolving, and IMO very well, the series 4 finale some 14 years ago, and wholly watchable on its own.
The Ghost Monument vs Wild Blue Yonder - Easily RTD2
Duh. The Chibnall one has literally solved my insomnia (one of solid five episodes that share this notorious distinction).
Rosa vs The Giggle - Rosa wasn't bad, Giggle was better. RTD2
Rosa is highly overrated. Its heart is in the right place, but its a true historical that chickens out being a true historical by having a random asshole racist who wants to change history in this moment in time....because. Weak. Whereas the Giggle has to handle a lot of balls (no pun intended) being flown at the same time - including introducing a flawlessly realized Ncuti Gatwa, reintroducing a perfect modernization of the Toymaker (complete with random racism), a new UNIT post-Flux, and the interesting and frankly inviting lore reveal of the bi-regeneration, a concept that is new but, unlike a certain other lore reveal of recent year, its not intrusive and doesn't distinctly insult the intelligence or tests the patience of the audience. I only wish the games portion was a little lengthier, but to frame it as if Rosa is just barely better...madness.
Arachnids in the UK vs The Church on Ruby Road - Neither is great, I prefer the spiders. Chibnall.
RTD2 is superior because this one actually introduces a bold new era - the post RTD RTD era - no typo, this is the Doctor who has dealt with the emotional baggage, or has attempted to do so at least, of the Time War, and this bold new era is wilder, more fantastical and clearly influenced by Moffat, including this wild Christmas Special, which is frequently mad, pompous like RTD but introspective like Moffat and emotional like both.

Church on Ruby Road, by far.
The Tsuranga Conundrum vs Space Babies - Easy win for Tsuranga, which doesn't happen often. Chibnall.
The Tsuranga Conundrum is the worst episode of series 11, and has potentially the worst guest performances in all of Who. Period. Space Babies is silly, and without a doubt its the weakest one of this era, but Gatwa and Gibson click so well, and move so well together, I am obliged to spend the hour with them for them, much like it'd happen with Smith and any of his companions.

Space Babies, but I'll grant its close. Closest that its been yet.
Demons of the Punjab vs The Devil's Chord - Demons has issues but it's no contest for me. Chibnall.
Demons is the second best episode of Chibnall, so I totally get the sentiment. But its extremely overrated, as I think (a)the time aliens are basically the same exact concept as from Twice Upon a Time and it just seems like a lame similarity to not exploit that connection, and (b) the Doctor and gang's walking away at the end really, really ruins the end for me. Whereas Devil's Chord is at best an incredibly exciting episode, with cool references to the Beatles lore and all.

Ah, well. A tie, I'll be honest with you. Just.
Kerblam! vs Boom - RTD2, easily.
Funny thing is, Kerblam! would've been fine if the climax was so unashamedly pro-bourgeoisie. But yeah, Boom is amazing, and Ncuti's best performance thus far.
The Witchfinders vs 73 Yards - This is really close. I'm giving it to RTD2.
The Witchfinders is my third fave of the Whittaker era, and that's not because of the story (its basically a bit shit), but solely because of Alan Cumming, who really shines on Who and needs to come back every season from now on and forever. But yeah, 73 Yards.
It Takes You Away vs Dot and Bubble - RTD2 wins.
Ditto, but here's the clinker: It Takes You Away is without a doubt the best episode, and story, of the entire Chibnall era. Bar none. That a Doctor-lite episode is better than it, says a lot about why the episode falls short (spoiler alert: its the boring-ass companions)

The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos vs Rogue - Didn't like either much. I guess Chibnall, barely.
Rogue, and its not even close. The Doctor in a romantic sub-plot that doesn't involve River Song is actually a refreshing change of pace.
Resolution vs The Legend of Ruby Sunday - Really close. I'll give it to RTD2.
They're close, because while the latter is much better written technically and directed and edited with real tension, the former at least has the only believable character arc in the entire Chibnall series, and ironically with the single worst companion of the entire NuWho (MAYBE of all of Who, but that's arguable) and in the latter, not much happens. But the latter is engaging, and the former meanders a lot. A. Lot.
Spyfall, Part One vs Empire of Death - Chibnall wins.
The RTD2 is a lame, lazily written, clearly in need of a rewrite, and the resoltution of the plot takes place way sooner than should've been. THAT BEING SAID, its tons more fun and actually functional than Spyfall, which fails from the minute we see the title (Spyfall? As in, Skyfall but its about spies? But... Skyfall was a spy movie, about the location of a spy's origin...ah, fuck it!), with a plot that never works and actually never truly makes sense untilt the second part, and above all, the worst sin of all...wasting the great, fantastic, incredible Stephen Fry on what basically constitutes as a cameo only to be killed off immediately after meeitng with him. Aslo, this epispode compounds and never really escapes Chibnall's central problem of having to deal with companions who have no agencies, no arcs to fullfill and no function to perform as part of a TARDIS "fam".

Empire of Death, and I say this as someone who was profoundly disappointed by it, but still appreciates what it was trying to do. It just didn't do as well as it could. But Spyfall? It didn't even try.
Spyfall, Part Two vs Joy to the World - Close, Spyfall was really dumb, but Chibnall wins.
I guess one would choose Spyfall depending on how much they enjoy Dhawan's performance in it. I don't. And the story's shit throughout, and another one where the companions aimlessly go around achieving nothing. Meanwhile, Joy to the World is a Steven Moffat Christmas Special. Nuff said.
Orphan 55 vs The Robot Revolution - I liked the 'every 9th word' thing and I hated the 'Orphan 55' thing, so RTD2.
Yep.
Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror vs Lux - Giving this to Chibnall
Lux because it is The Greatest Show in the Galaxy for StreamingWho. But, the Tesla episode was a series 12 highlight, flaws and all.
Fugitive of the Judoon vs The Well - The Well was not bad, but Chibnall wins this.
The Well, while lesser to Midnight, is still gripping, exciting and involving, and can be enjoyed even without the reference to Midnight (probably more so, I'd argue). Meanwhile, half of Fugitive is, again and again, the companions wandering around aimlessly achieving nothing. And the Jo Martin reveal, as well as she might as the Doctor, simply muddles the waters for the reveal that is to come.

Also, highly problematic a guest no-Doctor is better at being the Doctor for five minutes than Jodie Whittaker has been for more than 15 episodes by this point. Terrible writing does that.
Praxeus vs Lucky Day - Would it be fair to say Tighe vs Tighe is a tie? I'll give it to RTD2.
Praxeaus is awful.
Can You Hear Me? vs The Story & the Engine - Neither is my favourite, but if I have to choose it's Chibnall.
The Story & the Engine, and its not even close. The former is another one of those "Chibnall episodes that cured my insomnia" ones, and in this case ironically too.

So yeah, I just don't see how Chibnall era even comes close except rare cases and its only after positing after direct opposites. If we rank best-to-worst in terms of actual quality, RTD2 blows it off the chart, no question.
 
Kill the Moon has grown on me over time.
It’s not even the fact that the moon is an egg and seemingly draws Math from nothing to make the story happen, that’s the really stupid part.

It’s that the creature immediately lays another identical egg, just after birth that one needs to ignore.

Without that part, it’s a decent story and I can appreciate the moral dilemma and Clara’s development.
The spider creatures are scary.
The setting is eerie.
It is an underrated episode purely because of the oh, no we need to replace the moon now afterthought of an ending.

Even a single line of “The space chicken will be off now to grow up, but will return in a hundred years to it’s birthplace and renew the cycle.” Would have done it.

Forest is indefensible, though
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top