Spoilers The Story & the Engine grade and discussion thread

[The Nth Doctor]

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I almost forgot again! Partially because I went to see Thunderbolts* again today, but really because I keep losing track of time.

I'm very curious what to expect in this episode. And I'm also trying to restrain myself from saying anything about Metebellis III (echoes of 17 years ago...).

I'm also not sure what to make of the title, as well as how it's stylized with an & as oppose to an "and." I'm probably overthinking it.

 

[The Wormhole]

Varada Sethu very recently visited a planet which had a thing for spiders...

 

[Turtletrekker]

Varada Sethu very recently visited a planet which had a thing for spiders...

Spoiler

I hope Belinda fares better.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Anansi? The trickster from West Africa?

 

[JD]

I'm wondering if this is going to be the start of the build up to the finale. From what we've seen so far it seems like whatever is going on is connected to reality being altered, and title makes me think this could be part of that.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Anansi? The trickster from West Africa?

Good to see an African God who isn't Egyptian included in the bunch, especially since most people only know the Egyptian pantheon out of all of the African gods.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Good to see an African God who isn't Egyptian included in the bunch, especially since most people only know the Egyptian pantheon out of all of the African gods.

He's also a god of stories. So...

 

[Mr Awe]

He's also a god of stories. So...

Who often appears as a spider as that is the literal translation of his name.

 

[jaime]

Quite good, would give it top marks if not a couple of janky bits that needed a smooth. One of which they papered over at the end, and some of which could have gone either way. I suspect the guest writer probably knew more of Who in the past than he was letting on, tbh. Performances were pretty good too.

Shame the rest of the series ‘til now hasn’t been like it.

The main bit I don’t like, that makes wrinkle my nose, is the sudden flip to the ‘gods’ being so important to humans. Didn’t need to raise the stakes like that, didn’t need to go against the established ethos of the show and character. The men in the shop were all that was needed for stakes.

Also a bit iffy on the fugitive Doctor/Anansi stuff, but they papered part of it.

All the other janky bits could go either way, so I won’t go ever them now.

 

[jaime]

He's also a god of stories. So...

He’s better known than the Egyptian gods in the UK. Heck, he gets more screen time and story time than the Bible, outside of Easter.
We also had Tinga Tinga Tales on CBeebies for years.

 

[Stuart Wilson]

He’s better known than the Egyptian gods in the UK. Heck, he gets more screen time and story time than the Bible, outside of Easter.
We also had Tinga Tinga Tales on CBeebies for years.

I expect that depends on the part of the UK you're from. Not much of an African diaspora where I'm from so I doubt many people have heard of him around here.
Anyway, a good story, quite traditional as a Who episode goes but I liked it being set in a part of the world that doesn't tend to get much attention, and when it does tends to be as a background to westerners stories. I suppose they tried it with Demons of the Punjab though here the sci-fi element worked much better and was integral rather than being shoe-horned in cos "it's Doctor who so we have to have some aliens" (really, had they had the guts to make that a proper historical with no sci-fi element it could have been a classic). I've enjoyed the season so far. Next week, hmm...Let's hope the Eurovision references are kept to a minimum although I doubt it.

 

[jaime]

I expect that depends on the part of the UK you're from. Not much of an African diaspora where I'm from so I doubt many people have heard of him around here.
Anyway, a good story, quite traditional as a Who episode goes but I liked it being set in a part of the world that doesn't tend to get much attention, and when it does tends to be as a background to westerners stories. I suppose they tried it with Demons of the Punjab though here the sci-fi element worked much better and was integral rather than being shoe-horned in cos "it's Doctor who so we have to have some aliens" (really, had they had the guts to make that a proper historical with no sci-fi element it could have been a classic). I've enjoyed the season so far. Next week, hmm...Let's hope the Eurovision references are kept to a minimum although I doubt it.

We’re gonna suffer full Europop.

Am sure you got Tinga Tinga there, but it’s a kids show from about fifteen years back, so maybe not something the grups watched.

I’m just glad, even with the odd janky bit, that it wasn’t Desmond’s in Time and Space. Which it would have been if RTD had written the same concept.
I’m not 100 percent enough was made of the location (you really could have set it anywhere tbh) but it did look nice.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I enjoyed it. I suspect if I were versed any in Nigerian/African culture and mythology I might have gotten more out of it.
So won't say much about that part, because I don't feel qualified.

Is this the first time we get a Doctor Who episode without a single white person (outside of the story telling flashbacks)?
And did I imagine things or did the Doctor pick up a little bit of the local accent, which would make sense with as much as he considers himself part of that community.
I like that we get glimpses of his life outside of the wild adventures.
He likes to take his time now to stop running every now and then and take refuge in a save space. A very mental health care thing to do.

The Doctor still forgets his pre-Hartnell lives most of the time. He points out it's the first time in this black body for him, but we get a glimpse in the same very episode of the fugitive Doctor (yay surprise Jo Martin!). But he only has impressions not tangible memories still until he gets solid reminders.

It's interesting that the backstory we get for him here is a story untold. Quite the irony.

Obligatory all the Doctors montage!

Mrs Flood appears randomly without any impact on the story whatsoever, but as Mrs Flood, Belinda's neighbor.

I was seeing wild theories on YT before this, totally going wild with theories. That we might get big fundamental revelations. Like Belinda being a Time Lord or even a future version of the Doctor, just from the intercuts of the Doctor in the barber shop and her in the TARDIS reacting to the time and space shenanigans. Apparently that had to mean that she unlocked memories from a fob watch or some such!
The disappointment must be immense. XD

Vindicating remains a side quest that goes without a hitch and is quickly done away with.
Belinda telling the Doctor that he has to get her home every single episode is getting a bit old. I think we get it.
They do not explain why that particular time and place helps with that, or I missed it.

 

[jaime]

I enjoyed it. I suspect if I were versed any in Nigerian/African culture and mythology I might have gotten more out of it.
So won't say much about that part, because I don't feel qualified.

Is this the first time we get a Doctor Who episode without a single white person (outside of the story telling flashbacks)?
And did I imagine things or did the Doctor pick up a little bit of the local accent, which would make sense with as much as he considers himself part of that community.
I like that we get glimpses of his life outside of the wild adventures.
He likes to take his time now to stop running every now and then and take refuge in a save space. A very mental health care thing to do.

The Doctor still forgets his pre-Hartnell lives most of the time. He points out it's the first time in this black body for him, but we get a glimpse in the same very episode of the fugitive Doctor (yay surprise Jo Martin!). But he only has impressions not tangible memories still until he gets solid reminders.

It's interesting that the backstory we get for him here is a story untold. Quite the irony.

Obligatory all the Doctors montage!

Mrs Flood appears randomly without any impact on the story whatsoever, but as Mrs Flood, Belinda's neighbor.

I was seeing wild theories on YT before this, totally going wild with theories. That we might get big fundamental revelations. Like Belinda being a Time Lord or even a future version of the Doctor, just from the intercuts of the Doctor in the barber shop and her in the TARDIS reacting to the time and space shenanigans. Apparently that had to mean that she unlocked memories from a fob watch or some such!
The disappointment must be immense. XD

Vindicating remains a side quest that goes without a hitch and is quickly done away with.
Belinda telling the Doctor that he has to get her home every single episode is getting a bit old. I think we get it.
They do not explain why that particular time and place helps with that, or I missed it.

They said it was because Lagos is full of tech, but it’s a wafer thin excuse, as they may as well hit up City Road roundabout, Tokyo, Seoul and just avoid North Korea basically.

I like the way The Barber and Anansi’s daughter almost has me wondering if she was Susan… which may have been better. I also get why the Jo Martin Doctor was worked in, but it sounded more like another Doctor in the telling frankly — I also think it would suit nicely if it wasn’t this Doctor that first met Omo, but maybe Capaldi as a good example. I think they kind of did Omo dirty — he was like a Brigadier character we hadn’t met, so having him, and the other guys, throw the Doctor under the bus *precisely* because he was in fact different to them, was… well. It added drama, but I am not sure it sits right with me, and isn’t something you want to think about subtextually in this story.

The way it’s a sort of retelling of Doctor Who overall was really nicely done.
It ties in enough different myths as being the same myth at one point, but it gets a bit… not DW with the suggestion of the gods being tied to humanity as closely as they are. A bit contradictory with stuff like Daemons or Boom, for instance.

It’s not pulling as hard from African Myth as it might seem, but just enough, and more than 73 yards was doing despite its pretences. It also neatly explains enough of it to use it as colour for the story without making it disrespectful.

 

[matthunter]

It's also sad we have to get a "Doctor isn't as welcome in some places/times on Earth as before so has to seek out new friends and places he IS welcome" message.

Sad firstly because we're in a period we NEED reminding of that.

Sad secondly because - and I'm SURE this was not the author's intent - it is dangerously close to the "if you don't like it here, go back to X and be with your own kind!*" hate that Reform, MAGA et al. spew...

*: yes, I know the Doctor isn't actually Nigerian.

 

[jaime]

It's also sad we have to get a "Doctor isn't as welcome in some places/times on Earth as before so has to seek out new friends and places he IS welcome" message.

Sad firstly because we're in a period we NEED reminding of that.

Sad secondly because - and I'm SURE this was not the author's intent - it is dangerously close to the "if you don't like it here, go back to X and be with your own kind!*" hate that Reform, MAGA et al. spew...

*: yes, I know the Doctor isn't actually Nigerian.

Yeah. A couple of ways that came o er didn’t sit right with me. Especially when it’s over hammered with ‘sometimes I go to india’.
One of the reasons it doesn’t sit right, is because we are very multiethnic/cultural, and it starts to smack of segregation through the back door, or ‘go back where you came from’ as you say by accident.

Then there’s the fact that in the story itself, they all throw him under the bus (which is at least addressed immediately) as essentially a sacrifice. They don’t ask him to save them. They literally offer him up. (The Brig wouldn’t have done that.)
Then it’s resolved by the Doctor overloading the system with all the stories of who he was… which was mostly white dudes.

It’s not McTighe levels of mixed messaging, but you don’t want to be thinking about it too hard. And you can put a positive spin on it of the Doctor reconciling with himself over it.

In fact… you know who would have been a perfect fit for the marrying Anansi’s daughter story?
Davison.
It really suits the fifth Doctor, and is in keeping with stuff like Kinda.

And, as a bonus, Davisons dad was West Indian, (Guyana) so it would have been a gentle way to remind people that not everything is so clear cut.