Spoilers The Story & the Engine grade and discussion thread

[The Nth Doctor]

I loved this episode and it's probably my favorite episode of the season. As someone who has always been a big fan of mythology*, the nature of storytelling has always played a major role in myths and I loved how that tapestry is weaved (pun intended) within the culture of barbershops. I loved seeing that setting used as means to feast on stories from captive customers who are forced to keep telling more and more (literally) animated stories, all part of a great spider traveling across a world wide web.

I loved how The Doctor was pulled into that snare and then reveled in its space, utilizing not just his knowledge of the gods, but also his very existence as means of defeating The Barber**. I especially delighted in how The Barber tried to fool The Doctor into thinking he was all of these different gods, including trickster gods such as Anasi and Loki, before The Doctor quickly called out his lies within myths. And of course, The Doctor being the being that he is, forgave The Barber for his machinations, which itself is a nice counter to most myths.

Some may have called this a mere bottle episode but for me this episode thrived as a stage play that told lies and truths and challenged longstanding myths. I strongly suspect that my enjoyment of this episode, like the best of plays, will only increase with multiple viewings as I delve deeper into its layered themes.

On a Mrs. Flood front, I'm glad her cameo occurred during The Doctor's story about Belinda instead of a forced appearance in the streets of Lagos.

*Shamefully the majority of my knowledge is almost entirely Western and Egyptian myths only. Perhaps it's my lack of knowledge of non-Egyptian African myths (aside from surface-level knowledge of Anasi and a handful of Asian myths) is what held my attention because of its unknown mystique. I'm curious to know what people, who have better knowledge of African myths than I do, think of this episode.

**Sounds like a Time Lord villain even though I know that was 100% not the intention of the episode's NIgerian writer, Inua Ellams, who I just discovered on Wikipedia wrote a play set in Black barbershops...

Edit: How could I forget The Fugitive Doctor cameo?! Something was itching in the back of my mind when The Doctor first glimpsed Abena, which made suspect that he was dealing with an ancient memory. As a result, I was not surprised by her appearance because it felt like a natural connection. As to how The Fifteenth Doctor could recall one of her memories, it's clear that he struggled at first to remember her and I imagine being in her presence while dealing the nature of myths is what allowed him to briefly retrieve a Fugitive Doctor memory. At least that's my handwave and that works well enough for me. Any excuse to have more Jo Martin is a plus!

 

[26138]

Lots of telling while standing in front of the unused backstory display device.

Personally this lost me at the premise. I was never going to like an episode about a story-powered mechanical spider on a mission to kill the gods and remove storytelling from the world that uses haircuts as part of its operation. It earned itself a place at the bottom of my rankings the moment the writer came up with the concept. That's just my taste in stories.

And I was pretty bored too.

Same. I actually started skipping ahead because I was uninterested. Least favorite episode this season.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Same. I actually started skipping ahead because I was uninterested. Least favorite episode this season.

Kept me riveted. Different strokes.

 

[26138]

I also was unsure why the Doctor got so pissed off at Omo. That seemed out of left field. It's not like Omo made the Doctor go there. The Doctor went there on his own and there was no way Omo could stop him. And, yes, Omo wanted the Doctor there but he didn't make it happen.

Yeah, that seemed weird to me.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Like I said in my review, I think it all depends on your perspective. I almost immediately saw it as a stage play and I greatly enjoyed it as a result. Granted, that's not the standard format for this show and I can understand why some would find it off-putting or even boring, but for what it clearly was intended as (as further emphasized by the fact the writer created a play set in Black barbershops), it excelled.

 

[diankra]

My vague issue is that the guy with the water hose is defiinitely Ncuti, not a past incarnation, as he talks about it being a place where his 'first black body' isn't treated as an outsider.
But later it turns out that it was the fugitive Doctor who won the hand of Anansi's daughter (sure he has another name, but iplayer is out so not rewatched it).. So (aside from it being a same sex marriage) what's missing if a shot of the current Doctor being puzzled: I remembered something I can't remember.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I really enjoyed this episode, loved seeing Jo Martin's Doctor again.

 

[Mr Awe]

Kept me riveted. Different strokes.

I was riveted (overall), bored (all the telling, backstories), and confused (being PO'd at Omo) all in the same episode. Different strokes in same folk!

 

[jaime]

Yeah, that seemed weird to me.

From the dialogue, it’s basically because the Doctor liked being treated as ‘one of us’ and instead, he was being used a sacrifice because he was different after all. That’s what hurt. No one warned him not to come in, not to close the door etc, and instead everything that is going on is unfolded slowly, because they were hoping he would come, and Omo even outright says he had told The Barber that the Doctor would have enough power in his stories to power the ship without a need for anyone else.

That’s what did it. Not living up to the kindness that he believed was there, by someone who he had saved the life of.

 

[Starkers]

At the risk of bringing problematic people into another thread, there was more than a hint of Gaiman here (I appreciate he doesn't have dominion over all stories about gods and tricksters)

 

[jaime]

At the risk of bringing problematic people into another thread, there was more than a hint of Gaiman here (I appreciate he doesn't have dominion over all stories about gods and tricksters)

Yeah, he did somewhat popularise it post-Sandman, and of course he did Anansi Boys (after Lenny Henry was part of Neverwhere TV production — but there are rumours that Neverwhere itself was someone else project that the Beeb ripped off and slid onto Lenny and Gaiman plate) but the form was everywhere low-key at the time anyway. African Storytelling and Art were both literally on the GCSE programmes in my school in the nineties, and I know it was in others too, including things like oral storytelling in group settings. Basically, for a certain generation, this going to be familiar. The last 10 years or so has had Tinga Tinga on CBeebies as I said.

Basically, it’s time had come, and Inua is of a younger generation that Davies and Co. (I.e he’s about four years younger than me) and would have had a different education and cultural background, even if he hadn’t come as a refugee from Nigeria. I think he was in Dublin as a kid though, so I don’t know if his GCSE years would have that same set of stuff in to reinforce anything he was getting from his home life.

The whole Gods thing (handled differently here and jankily in terms of how it fits into Who) is very reminiscent here of all the wildness years books — I half expected it to turn out that The Doctor himself had been half of those Gods by accidental influence. It’s very much in the wheelhouse of the Seventh Doctor, and even the Eighth Doctor books post the destruction of Gallifrey.

I do wonder if the writer had any exposure to those.

(I mean, Davies and Moffat have both been ripping… I mean recontextualising, those for years.)

 

[Redfern]

One ever so minor petty gripe...

He's naming these various gods he's supposedly been and we see portraits for most of them. But none for Bastet! Aww, come on! No fair!

Hey, I did state mine was a petty gripe.

 

[jaime]

One ever so minor petty gripe...

He's naming these various gods he's supposedly been and we see portraits for most of them. But none for Bastet! Aww, come on! No fair!

Hey, I did state mine was a petty gripe.

For some, Karvanista is all you’re gonna get xD

 

[Fantasy Lover]

https://www.doctorwho.tv/news-and-features/read-an-exclusive-prequel-to-the-story-the-engine-from-writer-inua-ellams

Here you can read how Omo met the doctor.

God, this episode was disappointing. I was happy that The Doctor finally assessed how it's like to be a black man and then it becomes this thrash. I'm sorry but I kept laughing every time hair was was cut because it was so obviously fake, only The Barber really cut his hair. I have to see behind the scenes how they managed to do that.

ETA apparently the kid Belinda saw was Poppy from space babies. Also, what was the Doctor thinking when he saw Malekith and Nebula?

 

[Captaindemotion]

I really wanted to like this one, as Den of Geek had a good spoiler-free interview with the writer beforehand and I liked how he basically DMed Russell on instagram to land a job and how this story echoed his own play set in a barbershop. It was also good to see DW outside of the usual sort of destination and acknowledgment that while we white liberals may do our best not to see skin colour, it exists for this Doctor and other black people. But it just didn’t come together for me - too much telling, rather than showing, a somewhat garbled plot and resolution IMHO, and I wasn’t quite sure if the fugitive Doctor backstory was something we were meant to already know or not.

I got the impression that this was someone trying to throw everything into his first DW story and there was some good stuff in there. It was of course nice to see Jo again, even if I couldn’t quite understand how the current Doctor went from talking about looking like he now does for a first and then remembering events from her incarnation. Maybe when he writes another one, he’ll be able to do more with less.

 

[Chakoteya]

Okay, now I'd like a review from someone who is 100% Nigerian and has lived there all their life. Just for the perspective of an entirely different culture from my own.

 

[Steve Roby]

I got the impression that this was someone trying to throw everything into his first DW story and there was some good stuff in there.

I wonder how much it was rewritten by RTD, who's said in the past that he sometimes does a lot of rewriting on other people's scripts.

 

[Starkers]

I really wanted to like this one, as Den of Geek had a good spoiler-free interview with the writer beforehand and I liked how he basically DMed Russell on instagram to land a job and how this story echoed his own play set in a barbershop. It was also good to see DW outside of the usual sort of destination and acknowledgment that while we white liberals may do our best not to see skin colour, it exists for this Doctor and other black people. But it just didn’t come together for me - too much telling, rather than showing, a somewhat garbled plot and resolution IMHO, and I wasn’t quite sure if the fugitive Doctor backstory was something we were meant to already know or not.

I got the impression that this was someone trying to throw everything into his first DW story and there was some good stuff in there. It was of course nice to see Jo again, even if I couldn’t quite understand how the current Doctor went from talking about looking like he now does for a first and then remembering events from her incarnation. Maybe when he writes another one, he’ll be able to do more with less.

Sums up my feelings better than I did

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

This is my favorite episode of the season. And what a season it's been!

I enjoyed the bottle-episode aspect of it, and I loved the dynamism of Ncuti's performance, who really comes together here, probably his most defining performance since Boom and so deserved. Overall, I liked all of it, including Martin's cameo and the meta reference (a story that will conclude one day? hmm...) My only real issue with it might be that the villain's motivation for all this seems flimsy and too abstact at best, but that's a minor quibble.

This is a classic. As momentous as the Doctor (and the show) going to Nigeria.

 

[kirk55555]

A very solid episode, if a bit sluggish at times. I liked the speech where the villain is claiming to be all these gods and then the Doctor just takes them down a peg by pointing out that he's interacted with all of thos gods and knows that they weren't all the same person. I also liked the brief Fugitive Doctor cameo, I guess The Doctor regained their memories (at least partially) of their time as The Fugitive Doctor at some point, although I don't think it was ever said on screen that they had before now.

I will say that "Gods" in general are really tiresome now in Doctor Who, but at least this villain had a bit of a Sci Fi bend with his machine. Also I felt nothing for The Doctor having a fit over the barber "betraying" him, because we've never seen the character before and the episode just tells instead of shows The Doctor having a connection to him/his shop and its not very effective with making the viewer care about it more then any other random civilians that The Doctor saves.

Overall a solid episode and a big step up from last week, but not as good as The Well which I think will go down as the definitive 15th Doctor story for me.