The sixth doctor debate

[Cutter John]

Patrick just had a great run, with brilliant stories, but because of moronic policy, a majority of his work was lost.

It's easy to say that now, but it was a completely different way of thinking back then. TV was ephemeral, there were no widespread reruns or Home Video releases, and storing the tapes cost money and took up a lot of space. What little - if any - sense of posterity there may have been wasn't deemed worth it. It's a great shame but there you go.

I understand, but it just seemed as if they were being very short sighted. I mean technology was racing at a rapid pace, and tho there may have been issues with storage expense in those days, but in the USA, there wasn't that attitude, at least I can still find all the honeymooners and Doby Gillis episodes..to me it just seems like that reasoning is a very convenient and diplomatic excuse.

I can sort of understand their reasoning. They were running low on storage space, the BBC generally didn't do reruns, and vhs hadn't become a thing yet. Doesn't mean I'm any less pissed off about it though, and wish I had access to a time machine and a large truck.

 

[Professor Zoom]

So is it fair to say then that Nathan-turner is to doctor who, what Schumacher was to Batman?

Well. Schumacher killed the Batman franchise. Nathan-Turner kept it going. He wanted to leave, but BBC told him: you leave, we shut down the show.

 

[starsuperion]

So is it fair to say then that Nathan-turner is to doctor who, what Schumacher was to Batman?

Well. Schumacher killed the Batman franchise. Nathan-Turner kept it going. He wanted to leave, but BBC told him: you leave, we shut down the show.

so who had the reins when they canceled it before the TV movie then?

 

[diankra]

So is it fair to say then that Nathan-turner is to doctor who, what Schumacher was to Batman?

Well. Schumacher killed the Batman franchise. Nathan-Turner kept it going. He wanted to leave, but BBC told him: you leave, we shut down the show.

so who had the reins when they canceled it before the TV movie then?

JNT did. But it's pretty clear that if John had insisted on leaving it would have ended two or three years earlier.
He was the captain who steered it into the iceGrade.. and stayed on the bridge as it sank.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Well. Schumacher killed the Batman franchise. Nathan-Turner kept it going. He wanted to leave, but BBC told him: you leave, we shut down the show.

so who had the reins when they canceled it before the TV movie then?

JNT did. But it's pretty clear that if John had insisted on leaving it would have ended two or three years earlier.
He was the captain who steered it into the iceGrade.. and stayed on the bridge as it sank.

Exactly. He knew it was time for him to leave. And maybe he should've and let the cancellation happen sooner. Would that have made fans happier? Maybe.

 

[DWF]

so who had the reins when they canceled it before the TV movie then?

JNT did. But it's pretty clear that if John had insisted on leaving it would have ended two or three years earlier.
He was the captain who steered it into the iceGrade.. and stayed on the bridge as it sank.

Exactly. He knew it was time for him to leave. And maybe he should've and let the cancellation happen sooner. Would that have made fans happier? Maybe.

If kind of did happen sooner in 1985 and people did want the series back, but then it was the same in 1989, The nearest person you cna compare JHT to is Rick Berman, because like Berman it was the higher ups that decided the fate of Doctor Who just as they did with Star Trek. Although the same could really said for Batman too.

 

[starsuperion]

Well as for the sixth in the DWM comics, aside from the very famous fourth Doctor run and the mostly apt fifth, the sixth Doctor's comics are some of my most favorite and endearing books ever. The comedy and cuteness of the shape shifter Frobisher is something I love. If only Capaldi could get a penguin in CGI, or robotic puppet with clever filming

 

[The Wormhole]

If only Capaldi could get a penguin in CGI, or robotic puppet with clever filming

Ooh, Frobisher done as a Farscape-style puppet is something I could totally dig!

 

[starsuperion]

If only Capaldi could get a penguin in CGI, or robotic puppet with clever filming

Ooh, Frobisher done as a Farscape-style puppet is something I could totally dig!

Dude! I know right! I mean how cool would it be to instead of having an updated K-9 companion, to have a shape changing Whifferdill Companion that like the Doctor's Tardis gets stuck as a Penguin from time to time, and can in some cases change his shape, but mostly stays as a penguin! He would be a great contrast to the Capaldi Doctor if he is more gruff and cranky!

I mean of all the companions the Doctor has had, my favourite has always been Frobisher!



Notice the Script from Shakespeare? That reminds me of the episode where Martha jones meets Shakespeare and the unpublished script Love's Labor Won!



Check out the Doctor's Map of Barsoom! From John Carter on Mars, and the cool reference to Van Gogh..which was also an 11th Doctor story.. which I think Moffat is definitely interested in the DWM comics, as this issue debuted in 1987 I believe..



I think a Frobisher would be a great inside knowledge nod to the 6th Doctor in some way.. and I would be satisfied with a robotic puppet, and a CGI addition when needed.. they could totally pull that off and I am glad you said Farscape, cause the Jim Henson company is based in the UK somewhere aren't they? That would be a great thing!!


Apparently Frobisher also met the 10th doctor as well..

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130801101034/tardis/images/9/9b/Ten_meets_Frobisher.jpg

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Part of the problem I think was that the program was kind of moving in a darker, more darker direction anyway. Davison's final season was pretty violent, especially Warriors of The Deep, Resurrection of The Daleks and Caves Of Androzani, where pretty much the entire supporting cast characters-good and bad-died. These kind of downer endings sort of continued into Colin's era with a few exceptions, such as "Vengeance on Varos" oddly enough.


I think one of the reasons Trial Of A Time Lord and McCoy's earlier stories were watered down a bit was because of people complaining about the violence (This sort of happened throughout Doctor Who's history-especially during Tom's early seasons-but reacher a fever pitch during the mid 80s I believe).

 

[Timewalker]

This is not official by any means, but I once read somewhere that the goofy outfits post-Tom Baker were John Nathan-Turner's doing. Apparently he felt that the Doctor and his companions needed to be wearing "costumes" instead of actual normal clothing for some unfathomable reason.

That's accurate. I believe word that was used was "uniforms" rather than "costumes," however. The idea, as I understand it, was that JNT believed it would be easier to merchandise the characters if they had a standard "look." Thus, Tegan kept her air hostess uniform, Turlough wore his school uniform, Adric wore whatever the hell that was, etc.

Tegan had several costume changes. So did Nyssa. Sarah Sutton must have seriously pissed somebody off, since hers got more and more ridiculous, until she was written out in her underwear.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Apart from Black Orchid (Where it was a plot point anyway) I think Tegan/Nyssa/Adric mostly stayed the same in the 19th season (Although Nyssa's costume was modified); it wasn't until the 20th that they shook things up a bit with the costumes.

 

[Starkers]

And Adric's was never shook up...well I suppose it probably was after a fashion!

 

[starsuperion]

In Killing Ground, a Past Doctor Adventure (PDA), the Sixth Doctor meets Grant Markham, who becomes his companion, and the two travel off together in the Tardis. Unfortunately, Steve Lyons never got around to writing a sequel where Grant leaves, so the Sixth Doctor's already convoluted continuity gets even worse.

So Basically Grant Markham has been trapped and or lost in the TARDIS since the sixth Doctor..LOL

 

[Sindatur]

In Killing Ground, a Past Doctor Adventure (PDA), the Sixth Doctor meets Grant Markham, who becomes his companion, and the two travel off together in the Tardis. Unfortunately, Steve Lyons never got around to writing a sequel where Grant leaves, so the Sixth Doctor's already convoluted continuity gets even worse.

So Basically Grant Markham has been trapped and or lost in the TARDIS since the sixth Doctor..LOL

And Teagan thought she had it bad when she got lost in the TARDIS in her first Episode (Round and round like a rat in a cage)

 

[kirk55555]

In Killing Ground, a Past Doctor Adventure (PDA), the Sixth Doctor meets Grant Markham, who becomes his companion, and the two travel off together in the Tardis. Unfortunately, Steve Lyons never got around to writing a sequel where Grant leaves, so the Sixth Doctor's already convoluted continuity gets even worse.

So Basically Grant Markham has been trapped and or lost in the TARDIS since the sixth Doctor..LOL

Now I'm imagining an episode where the Doctor and Clara are on the TARDIS, they land on a planet, and without any explanation some guy just comes walking out from one of the interior hallways. He then walks past them and exits the TARDIS without saying a single word. Then, The Doctor and Clara just shrug and go on with the adventure, never mentioning this event again

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Grant actually first appears in Time Of Your Life (by the same writer Steve Lyons).


I wouldn't say there's a huge problem with Sixth Doctor's continuity except for the Mel thing-and even that can be explained easily, he drops her off with his future (but still same incarnation) self, then has adventures with the other companions (Evelyn, Grant etc.) before 'meeting' Mel and having the Vervoids adventure etc.

There's also other gaps in the TV series which are fun to speculate on, or which have been elaborated on by official (if possibly not canon, although Night Of The Doctor mentioned thwe audio companions) fiction.

 

[Nightowl1701]

In Killing Ground, a Past Doctor Adventure (PDA), the Sixth Doctor meets Grant Markham, who becomes his companion, and the two travel off together in the Tardis. Unfortunately, Steve Lyons never got around to writing a sequel where Grant leaves, so the Sixth Doctor's already convoluted continuity gets even worse.

So Basically Grant Markham has been trapped and or lost in the TARDIS since the sixth Doctor..LOL

Yes and no. Steve Lyons did write one more Six/Grant story, Wish Upon a Star Beast, but it was for an unofficial charity book (Perfect Timing). Immediately following in that same book was the final Six/Grant story, Schrödinger's Botanist by Ian McIntyre, in which...well, let's just say Six and Grant didn't part on good terms.

Later on, in the Short Trips novel Repercussions by Gary Russell (set during the Eight/Charley era), we learn that Grant was effectively edited out of time (along with Eight's BBC novel companions, among others) and placed into a endless limbo/pocket area of the Vortex by the Doctor himself to prevent them from inadvertently wreaking havoc on history. [Ex. Sam Jones leading to the first destruction of Gallifrey.] Not something the Doctor's proud of, but it was either that or kill them...

 

[starsuperion]

Colin Baker was fired by Michael Grade. Michael Grade did not like Colin Baker. Michael Grade's girlfriend at the time was Colin Baker's ex-wife. Colin baker was not fired by the Production Team. John Nathan-Turner fought hard to keep Colin Baker on.

interesting.. so Grade was the culprit!

No one can escape the Grath Vinda kay!!

Or is it no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

 

[DWF]

Colin Baker was fired by Michael Grade. Michael Grade did not like Colin Baker. Michael Grade's girlfriend at the time was Colin Baker's ex-wife. Colin baker was not fired by the Production Team. John Nathan-Turner fought hard to keep Colin Baker on.

interesting.. so Grade was the culprit!

No one can escape the Grath Vinda kay!!

Or is it no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

Jonathon Powell should get the blame Grade just went along with whatever Powell wanted. And I still don't know what Liz Goddard had to do with it.