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Spoilers The Ships of Lower Decks

100% agree JJ Abrams doesn't care about that kind of thing, but your original post suggested Starkiller was completely implausible, and so all I was doing was giving some backstory to it. Obviously that backstory didn't need to be in the film so most won't know or care, but it points to actual thought being put into the design process, whether that's by the Director, Doug Chiang or (in that case) Lucasfilm as a whole.

Is there so much care and attention put into Trek? I'm not so sure.

The point you originally made is that Star Wars is all much better thought through up-front. I really don't think that's true, and brought up Starkiller base as an example, and as it turns out, the in-universe rationale for it was retroactively invented.

It strikes me that the only difference is that Star Wars has a bigger market for the spin-off media, such as games and reference books, because we agree the director and the writers don't really care about that stuff.
 
Well for Disney star wars, that it needs books and other material to clear up stuff that was shown in the movies that they completely glossed over. Emperor resurrection, how Starkiller base works, why you can see the "Lazer blast" from across the galaxy, and the Aluminum falcon is still to small to fit the sets. The Jump to lightspeed is now a superfast getaway device that happens in real space (Rogue One)
as for consistency, Hyperspace travel can now get you anywhere in the galaxy in less than an hour, where in the original it took awhile just to get to Alderaan. Don't get me started on the Light speed Skiping.. so.. Consistancy is poo.
 
Is there so much care and attention put into Trek? I'm not so sure.
Yes, there is.
Any examples? I'm surprised you think that because, especially since Disney took over, consistency has been a big thing for them.
How hyperspace works is probably the biggest one. Going from needing precise calculations to making a jump within a ship, jumping through a shield, as well as the odd visuals with the Starkiller weapon. Yeah, it warranted a bit more explanation even if it worked overall for the plot it's still a weird device.
 
The point you originally made is that Star Wars is all much better thought through up-front. I really don't think that's true, and brought up Starkiller base as an example, and as it turns out, the in-universe rationale for it was retroactively invented.

It strikes me that the only difference is that Star Wars has a bigger market for the spin-off media, such as games and reference books, because we agree the director and the writers don't really care about that stuff.

There was nothing retroactive about it, it was a development made in conjunction with The Force Awakens. Regardless of who developed the idea, be it the Director or the story group.

Read any of the Discovery or Picard threads and they'll be full of people filling in holes left by the Trek production team.
 
how Starkiller base works

They explained how Starkiiller base works. It harnesses the power of a sun. A blockbuster film doesn't need to convey the inner workings or its origin.

and the Aluminum falcon is still to small to fit the sets.

Not sure what this means.

The Jump to lightspeed is now a superfast getaway device that happens in real space (Rogue One)

What is this contradicting? It's always been the case.

Don't get me started on the Light speed Skiping

Again what's the contradiction?

Star Trek 2009 didn't explain how the Narada was built, or how they discovered red matter, or the origin story of Nero's assistant, or how the Enterprise got into space. Marvel films don't explain it's myriad of plot devices. You can't explain everything in a 2 hour film.
 
There was nothing retroactive about it, it was a development made in conjunction with The Force Awakens. Regardless of who developed the idea, be it the Director or the story group.

Read any of the Discovery or Picard threads and they'll be full of people filling in holes left by the Trek production team.
I see that with every franchise not just Star Trek. Including Star Wars, which has its own section for it on this site :)
Star Trek 2009 didn't explain how the Narada was built, or how they discovered red matter, or the origin story of Nero's assistant, or how the Enterprise got into space.
Yes, and we see complaints about those things too. Red matter probably being the biggest. The lack of explanation is glaring for some and detracts from the overall film. Star Wars just lampshades different things and expects fans to not question it. And part of that lampshading is the story group giving the appearance of authority.
 
Sure! I'm still trying to see if there are any other views of the other ships from spacedoc... SQUIRREL!
 
Not sure what this means.

The interior and the exterior of the Millennium Falcon has been measured, and found incompatible since the 1970s. It's like squaring a circle, a common problem within Star Wars fandom that is impossible to reconcile.

Trek has many similar issues with its deck heights and window placements, but the problem is elevated when it comes to the Falcon, due to the Falcon's extremely small comparable size.
 
The issues with the Falcon touch upon some basic issues of Trek, too, chiefly because both use a very convenient conceit: since they are flying saucers, their corridors are curved, making them perfect for shooting because you can't see around the bend and can't tell the set is actually tiny.

What follows is degree-of-curvature wars. The big flying saucer of the Trek ships necessarily would call for varying curvatures at varying spots, but there's only the one set. The small saucer of the Falcon in turn faces practical issues with making the corridor curve too much. But happily enough, the human eye is piss-poor at judging curvature - and OTOH perfectly accustomed to the optics of movie cameras perverting whatever little sense of curvature we possess. So there are many well-working solutions for placing the corridor sets of SW or ST within their respective saucers, by adjusting the curvature as needed.

Of course, that's at most half the job done, because sets also tend to be flat and the 3D structure of the ships doesn't work with that. So the Falcon is postulated to have all sorts of telescoping bits, say. But Trek ships are multi-story, in at least two senses: a given deck can be flat because the stuff above and below generally always has another deck to go to, and there are more stories there in the ST episodes than in the SW movies, allowing the exploration of several locations represented by the same set, the modification of the set for the purpose, and the intuitive establishing of the in-universe aspect of this, that is, there's always more to the set-represented fictional location than meets the eye.

LDS seems to use "sets", too: the rooms on the Cerritos are likely to be CGI constructs on top of which the action is drawn, for ease of animation. So there's little point in whipping out the ruler, and we have all the usual reasons for squinting, especially as regards curvature...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Or somebody in the animation department made a mistake?
Or someone knew something we don't, and there's a reason those were like that. And maybe that reason will eventually be revealed, and maybe it won't. It's certainly easy enough to no-prize away, anyway: they're on some sort of temporary assignment to the ship, maybe borrowed from a base or another ship.
 
I need to take a moment to actually watch the show... :T

Supposedly, the California class has "always" been around. If that's the case, perhaps the basic design could go back further than we think, to Kirk's or even Archer's time. I mean, the Cerritos is late TNG-era, just by the registry alone, but maybe the overall Californias have swapped out saucers and nacelles and the little drive section, ad nauseum. The original USS California would be a museum piece with NX-style hull plating and the USS Compton was a TOS-style white ship. The Riverside has a Sovereign sensibility and could overpower the Cerritos or Long Beach in a heartbeat. In STPicard's day, the Simi Valley is the latest iteration and has a very pointed arrowhead in place of an old-style saucer.

I took this statement as a generalization describing all the lesser gruntwork jeep classes of starships. The kind that actually keep the Federation running, allowing the gallant Constitutions and Galaxies to do the high-profile, high-risk assignments that give them death or glory (See Exeter, Intrepid, Yamato...)

The trend must have started as far back as sometime around the 2290s with the Mirandas becoming increasingly stock- to the point that by early TNG they were practically throwaway starships. By then there were so many doing so many little things around the Federation that by the time the Dominion war depleted them starfleet needed a replacement class after suffering withdrawal. Enter the Californias, which are nothing more than the same stupid stock model Mirandas constructed with updated technology.
 
To when in Rogue one, they escape Jedda blowing up by engaging lightspeed and outrun the "Earth Wave" comming at them IN atmosphere, even in Rise of Skywalker when they lightspeeded thru some ice wall ( Which should have pancaked them)
 
So we got our first look at a 'Science' focused California Class this week. It wasn't a straight colour swap from the yellow on the Cerritos, they had a different pattern for their blue.
wW2jmyy.png


Next weeks episode has a new ship class, which has the Registry at the front Screencap from @NCC-73515

UKtreVk.png




( Which should have pancaked them)
Depends on how thick it is.
 
So we got our first look at a 'Science' focused California Class this week. It wasn't a straight colour swap from the yellow on the Cerritos, they had a different pattern for their blue.
wW2jmyy.png


Next weeks episode has a new ship class, which has the Registry at the front Screencap from @NCC-73515

UKtreVk.png





Depends on how thick it is.

Did that other California class ship have a name and registry number?
 
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