The Seska/Kazon arc

[Guy Gardener]

How can Voyager be his home if he had never stepped foot on it before? Nowhere is your true home until after you have stained the walls with a few farts... Do Vulcans fart?

Legend is a spy word. It means that she was pretending to be a fake person so well that everyone thought it was her true self when it was not. Every breath she took was a lie. Every oath she took was a lie. Seska the Bajoran maquis was not Seska the Cardassian, They were two different disconnected people.

The Maquis renounced their Federation Citizenship, and rejected the treaty of 2367. That was the deal that Picard set up in Journey's End for the farmers who stayed behind after the boarder moved. They were no longer Federation citizens, they were Cardassian Citizens. The Maquis was founded from that group of Farmers. Obviously the Maquis rejected Cardassian citizenship too, not that either empire respected or accepted their in no way quasilegal autodisenfranchisement.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Who exactly did Janeway "sell" replicators to?

Everyone.

JANEWAY: Oh, I'd say we're at least partly to blame. That was Starfleet technology that killed those hunters.
CHAKOTAY: There's nothing inherently violent about holodeck technology. It's what the Hirogen did with it that got them killed.
JANEWAY: How many times have we shared replicators to help people feed and clothe themselves?
CHAKOTAY: Trading technology is part of our life in the Delta Quadrant.
TUVOK:: It has been necessary for our survival.
JANEWAY: Maybe we should have been a little more careful about what we traded and who we traded with. Replicators make weapons just as easily as they do food.
CHAKOTAY: We can't undo what's been done.
JANEWAY: Maybe not. But we can help shut these holograms down before anyone else gets hurt. Now, if there are no more objections, I'd like to get underway.

Suder before the brain surgery? Did he take an oath? How binding was that? If Tuvok believed in their oaths, then why did he deign that training program to hunt and kill the Maquis if they got out of line?

They got uniforms because they were more than likely infested with lice.

No one has to swear an oath to wear a provisional Maquis rank badge because it's made up bullshit.

What we actually saw in Paralax is that Chakotay agreed to beat the living shit out of anyone who didn't want to make nice and play house on Voyager.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm not sure what this has to do with Tuvok having to leave Voyager. Seska chose to leave.

I was responding to this...

She was forced to leave Voyager when it was discovered what she did, and that she was a spy.

Did Seska leave because she a spy?

I really think that the Spying was irrelevant.

I also think that she would have gotten off, revealing that she was an arrogant Cardassian, daring the Maquis to murder her, and when they didn't their impotence would have made her flush with joy.

Besides, 2 weeks earlier they all stole a transporter doohicky from nice aliens, she got the idea to trade technology from the lot of them.

 

[Prax]

I don't think those American Indians were Maquis. The Maquis were just Fed colonists inside the DMZ that the Federation couldn't protect, and the Cardassians couldn't harm, but they found a way.

Nechayev: "I want you to find the Maquis, Commander... talk to them... remind them that they're citizens of the Federation..."

"Establish a dialogue with the Maquis. They're still Federation citizens. I'm sure they'll listen to reason."

Seska do very bad. Sheesa say "Weesa needin some allies" and da Janaway say "Weeza don't do ano trading wissa bad guys" Seska getta caught and Janaway izza moi angry! Seska say "Meesa outta dis place! Dissa no fun!"

 

[Prax]

I was responding to this...

Did Seska leave because she a spy?

As I wrote, she was busted. Her deeds were uncovered, and her identity was uncovered at more or less the same time. When confronted about BOTH, she fled. She had a backup plan and a Kazon ship standing by. She didn't want to take responsibility and stay.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Which is why I do not think that the writers understand Cardassians.

I believe she left, because she could not steal any more new technology, and not because she was in any way afraid of Janeway.

Seska could have talked her way out of it and stayed, which would have alienated her deal with the Kazon, and then she'd had no where to go.

Seska left because there was no reason to stay, but she could have stayed, and maintained her freedom with barely any effort.

Shit does not stick to this woman.

Could you imagine her trial?

Squee!

I'm thinking of the trial of Gaius Baltar in Nu BuSG, that shit was epic.

Something like that.

 

[Refuge]

Seska had a weakness and it was Chakotay. He was her motivation..

 

[Guy Gardener]

I don't think those American Indians were Maquis.

The Maquis was a rejection of the treaty of 2267.

There couldn't be Maquis until after the Federation had decided to leave them behind in Cardassian space or the DMZ, although Cardassian farmers armed by their government had been picking on Federation farmers armed by their government since TNG The Wounded.

Par for the course.

 

[Prax]

Could you imagine her trial?

I'd imagine it'd be similar to Lt. J'Dan's trial, however that turned out.

Having Seska remain on board would be problematic for the writers, unless they just kept her in her quarters. Nobody would trust her. She isn't trustworthy. And she's a very capable threat. It makes sense having her leave.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'd imagine it'd be similar to Lt. J'Dan's trial, however that turned out.

Having Seska remain on board would be problematic for the writers, unless they just kept her in her quarters. Nobody would trust her. She isn't trustworthy. And she's a very capable threat. It makes sense having her leave.

Seska was buying protection with technology.

Not only were kazon ships ahead of them clearing assholes out of the way, but Seska was receiving intelligence about really bad idea places not to head towards (which means that she was using a sleep programmer to put thoughts in Neelix's head.) and Voyager would have been CCed into all their mutual defence pacts and trade agreements, as long as the kazons allies never mentioned why they were being so nice to kathryn.

Seska's only crime was humility.

If she had told her crew what she was up to, they would have thrown a parade.

That Klingon Spy was making an enemy stronger, not ingratiating an ally.

A horse of a different colour entirely.

 

[Prax]

The Klingons were an ally.

You see? Seska's been twisting your mind...
She's been controlling everyone! SHE'S TOO DANGEROUS TO BE LEFT ALIVE!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Wikipedia assures me that Lt. J'Dan was a Klingon working for the Romulans.

 

[Prax]

Wikipedia is obviously another front organization used by The Seska

 

[Anwar]

I'm thinking of the trial of Gaius Baltar in Nu BuSG, that shit was epic.

Something like that.

Beh, Baltar a weepy whiny little bitch.

 

[Shawnster]

Caretaker reset everything. All previous feuds were suspended. After Caretaker, Voyager was the nation-state. All of Voyager's crew were united under that common banner.

Tuvok never betrayed that banner. His "betrayal" was before Caretaker. His slate was wiped clean at the reset.

Seska betrayed Voyager AFTER Caretaker. Seska sold Voyager's secrets to the current perceived enemy. Seska betrayed the leader of this newly unified nation-state.

Seska betrayed her people - the crew of Voyager. Tuvok did not.

Had Seska come clean right after Caretaker, her Cardassian duplicity would have been wiped clean at the reset. Seska's continued hiding of this secret was a further betrayal. She kept a vital secret from her new countrymen.

 

[Gary7]

I never liked the Seska/Kazon arc. Someone like Seska would need partners for her cause -- going it alone is stupid and dangerous. How can you trust an alien species you barely know? The Kazon are chauvinists, treating women as inferior. Seska was very short sighted. Once the Kazon figured out everything they needed to know regarding Federation technology and Voyager, she'd be marginalized or killed off. The Kazon were definitely "knock-off Klingons", with tree-bark bonsai hair monstrosities. They looked ridiculous. I was so glad once the Kazon were left behind.

 

[Prax]

That's why she mated with their leader, and had his child. Now she's all "Empress of the Thugs."

 

[Gary7]

That's why she mated with their leader, and had his child. Now she's all "Empress of the Thugs."

Biological incompatibility. Humanoid species from different quadrants of the galaxy. Just no friggin' way due to bacterial distinctiveness. And I was sick of this "DNA transformation" of body casings from human or Bajoran to Cardassian. The Cardassians are semi-lizard people, dammit! I don't believe Seska would successfully "hide" her identity like that without being detected, let alone be able to have a baby with a human or a Kazon. That part of Trek just bothers me to all hell and back.

 

[Prax]

What about all the Cardassians who fathered Bajoran children? Like what's her face...Garak's honeyboo. I can't remember her name. And a weird one is actually Spock, who is half human, but has copper based blood, and his heart in his lower side.

And in DS9, Dukat was transformed to look like a Bajoran. Do you think he had difficulties keeping his posture without those neck bones?

I don't think Seska had the neck bones but I don't remember. And there was Boone: O'Brien's old wartime buddy from the Rutledge, who wasn't really Boone, but a Cardassian who was altered to look exactly like Boone.

 

[Gary7]

^ While I think interracial breeding is fine, inter-species is fraught with so many medical challenges, it's just inconceivable. And to what end? Now if they'd discovered that Bajorans and Cardassians had a great deal of DNA in common, perhaps... But physically they're so incredibly different within the humanoid category. Those neck "bones" or "tendons" as I'd prefer to call them (with scaly covering) make Cardassians look part Cobra snake... and you'd think that they weren't just cosmetic decoration -- they did something. Completely removed? No. Just doesn't make sense. I understand the desire to imagine it for plot devices, but they could've done something else.