The Romulan Star Empire in Star Trek: Discovery
- Thread starter INACTIVEUSS Einstein
- Start date
It's probably the poor miner's version of the ridges or something. Not every Romulan is well endowed, but the poor can compensate with tattoos...
Nero's crew and his wife had tattoos, and the men had shaved heads. The two ridgeless, tattooless pointy-ears Spock seems to argue with in that flashback shot when he tells the story of his life to Kirk may be Romulans or Vulcans. The three Vulcans who equip Spock's ship are ridgeless. Doesn't mean other Romulans, off screen, couldn't have ridges even in this visual interpretation of the Trek universe. After all, Romulans seem to accept Spock's smooth forehead as one of their own in "Unification" easily enough; both types seem to be fine in the prime timeline, so why not elsewhere as well, without the need to call anything a retcon?
(Of course, the TNG style ridges could be "tattoos", too - that is, some Romulans use ink, while others insert filler to actually raise the skin...)
Timo Saloniemi
Nero's crew and his wife had tattoos, and the men had shaved heads. The two ridgeless, tattooless pointy-ears Spock seems to argue with in that flashback shot when he tells the story of his life to Kirk may be Romulans or Vulcans. The three Vulcans who equip Spock's ship are ridgeless. Doesn't mean other Romulans, off screen, couldn't have ridges even in this visual interpretation of the Trek universe. After all, Romulans seem to accept Spock's smooth forehead as one of their own in "Unification" easily enough; both types seem to be fine in the prime timeline, so why not elsewhere as well, without the need to call anything a retcon?
(Of course, the TNG style ridges could be "tattoos", too - that is, some Romulans use ink, while others insert filler to actually raise the skin...)
Timo Saloniemi
The Mintakans suggest it's some ancestral trait of Vulcanoids - Romulans culture might prize this pre-Surak look in the same way there was that Celtic tattoo craze in the late nineties.
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I disagree that the Cardassians and Romulans share too much in common to be interesting alternatives, or that they no longer have a point co-existing in Star Trek. You could argue that the Klingon state is similar, with all the same ideas like "violence is a virtue", what is right for the species is right period, etc, yet they are still interesting. The Romulans are the older foe in Star Trek anyway, and so maybe I just feel they deserve a reverential position as villain. In real life, cultures with political similarity exist, but each is unique in other ways.
The Cardassian Union is predicated around 1). nationalism, 2). worship of family, and 3). worship of sacrifice to the state - "The Never Ending Sacrifice" being their most famous work of literature - they are shown as a people led by Central Command into ignorant sacrifice of their freedoms for the promise of security, because they are impoverished, only to be thrown away like a commodity by their rulers. They also changed as a culture significantly - during TOS, they may have still been in their pre-totalitarian phase, suffering famine, being granted food aid by the Federation - having a completely different culture.
The facade eventually collapsed. Central Command was first ousted by a democratic Detapa Council, then later, replaced by Gul Dukat's coup, in which the hypocrisy of an elite throwing Cardassian life into the grinder was revealed in full, leading to the death of 800 million Cardassians under Dominion rule.
The Romulans in contrast have been a formidable imperial civilization for centuries. One that I sense may not have quite the same combination of paternal ideals as the Cardassian state. The Roman Empire, despite similarities to many modern paternal tyrannies, like Franco's Spain, was still different in details. Like reading a description of Sparta:
On paper, the patrician plantation owners of the Confederate States of America shared similarities with ancient Sparta, but in practice, aside from both being slave owning states, which endows them with constant existential fears of revolt, and many common social parallels of dehumanizing their subjects, the two were probably hugely different in cultural details. The Spartans dined in communal barracks, ate a kind of military ration called "black broth", the state declared war on the helots every Autumn, youngsters had to pass the 'agoge', etc.
Ironically for being Trek's oldest villains we have less idea what their state ideology actually is, ranging from "we are creatures of duty", and being considered for the role of villain in Star Trek III (but being replaced by Klingons because the two were close enough in concept), to the TNG depiction of a culture obsessed with misdirection.
During TNG, they were depicted as being in a period of police-state (perhaps a passing historical period) - but they have also, in TOS, demonstrated a much more Roman social system, around rank/glory.
I can't imagine the Cardassians fielding an auxiliary legion of aliens, but the Romulans deployed Reman auxiliaries in the Dominion War, and may do the same with many other subject species, like the incredibly ethnically diverse Roman Empire.
We should be careful not to associate the Romulans visual design with any sensitive cultural stereotypes, lest we promote outdated racist tropes about asia. We have seen Romulan ambassadors adorned with aristocratic looking clothes in Star Trek V/VI, and there is some ambiguity over whether the empire has a Praetor, Emperor, or both, or changing leaders, but if they did go down the route of making Romulan aristocrats very decadent, a neutral futuristic fashion can be created.
People forget that Rome, and Rome's successors were quite aesthetically diverse at times. Venetian masquerades, Austrian imperial courts. Rome/Byzantium presented all the artistic sophistication of a 2000 year civilization, but people don't learn Latin as standard in grammar schools any more, so public consciousness has shifted away from classical antiquity.
The Cardassian Union is predicated around 1). nationalism, 2). worship of family, and 3). worship of sacrifice to the state - "The Never Ending Sacrifice" being their most famous work of literature - they are shown as a people led by Central Command into ignorant sacrifice of their freedoms for the promise of security, because they are impoverished, only to be thrown away like a commodity by their rulers. They also changed as a culture significantly - during TOS, they may have still been in their pre-totalitarian phase, suffering famine, being granted food aid by the Federation - having a completely different culture.
The facade eventually collapsed. Central Command was first ousted by a democratic Detapa Council, then later, replaced by Gul Dukat's coup, in which the hypocrisy of an elite throwing Cardassian life into the grinder was revealed in full, leading to the death of 800 million Cardassians under Dominion rule.
The Romulans in contrast have been a formidable imperial civilization for centuries. One that I sense may not have quite the same combination of paternal ideals as the Cardassian state. The Roman Empire, despite similarities to many modern paternal tyrannies, like Franco's Spain, was still different in details. Like reading a description of Sparta:
Sparta was unique in ancient Greece for its social system and constitution, which configured their entire society to maximize military proficiency at all costs, and completely focused on military training and excellence. Its inhabitants were classified as Spartiates (Spartan citizens, who enjoyed full rights), mothakes (non-Spartan free men raised as Spartans), perioikoi (free residents, literally "dwellers around"), and helots (state-owned serfs, enslaved non-Spartan local population).
On paper, the patrician plantation owners of the Confederate States of America shared similarities with ancient Sparta, but in practice, aside from both being slave owning states, which endows them with constant existential fears of revolt, and many common social parallels of dehumanizing their subjects, the two were probably hugely different in cultural details. The Spartans dined in communal barracks, ate a kind of military ration called "black broth", the state declared war on the helots every Autumn, youngsters had to pass the 'agoge', etc.
Ironically for being Trek's oldest villains we have less idea what their state ideology actually is, ranging from "we are creatures of duty", and being considered for the role of villain in Star Trek III (but being replaced by Klingons because the two were close enough in concept), to the TNG depiction of a culture obsessed with misdirection.
During TNG, they were depicted as being in a period of police-state (perhaps a passing historical period) - but they have also, in TOS, demonstrated a much more Roman social system, around rank/glory.
I can't imagine the Cardassians fielding an auxiliary legion of aliens, but the Romulans deployed Reman auxiliaries in the Dominion War, and may do the same with many other subject species, like the incredibly ethnically diverse Roman Empire.
We should be careful not to associate the Romulans visual design with any sensitive cultural stereotypes, lest we promote outdated racist tropes about asia. We have seen Romulan ambassadors adorned with aristocratic looking clothes in Star Trek V/VI, and there is some ambiguity over whether the empire has a Praetor, Emperor, or both, or changing leaders, but if they did go down the route of making Romulan aristocrats very decadent, a neutral futuristic fashion can be created.
People forget that Rome, and Rome's successors were quite aesthetically diverse at times. Venetian masquerades, Austrian imperial courts. Rome/Byzantium presented all the artistic sophistication of a 2000 year civilization, but people don't learn Latin as standard in grammar schools any more, so public consciousness has shifted away from classical antiquity.
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I actually enjoyed Latin. Glad I learned it.
Caecilius est in horto.
He is not.
Here's an early ST'09 concept of Nero featuring TNG-style brow ridges.
I'm not sure about these repeated references to the Romulans being warlike and expansionist. On the contrary I tend to think of them as being quite isolationist and inclined to avoid conflict, be it by diplomacy, detaching themselves from the galactic community, making treaties or sabre rattling brinksmanship.
They are the species who have twice gone into prolonged periods of detachment in their relationship with the federation, who disappeared at least twice behind The Neutral Zone, the race that probed federation space in cloacked ships in TOS but avoided detection or confrontation, the race that throughout TNG were frequently belligerent but usually stopped short of actual conflict when subterfuge or intimidation failed, the race who opted for a non aggression pact with the dominion.
They are the species who have twice gone into prolonged periods of detachment in their relationship with the federation, who disappeared at least twice behind The Neutral Zone, the race that probed federation space in cloacked ships in TOS but avoided detection or confrontation, the race that throughout TNG were frequently belligerent but usually stopped short of actual conflict when subterfuge or intimidation failed, the race who opted for a non aggression pact with the dominion.
The Cadassian, Klingon, Romulan trifecta of antagonist civilizations is useful in that it shines a mirror on the UFP as relatively unique (Barring whatever the First Federation is supposed to be) , and somehow thriving in the midst of these monolithic empires. Enterprise kind of messed that up by showing an earlier multi-species federation, the Xindi, and we know how that went.
@USS Einstein
You should create a trek species thread in general trek sub forum, you clearly enjoy discussing the various ones.
I like reading your longer posts as well.
You should create a trek species thread in general trek sub forum, you clearly enjoy discussing the various ones.
I like reading your longer posts as well.
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