The Return of Data? (spoilers)
- Thread starter bok2384
- Start date
hellsgate
Commodore
Bok: There was, is, and always will be fan fiction anthologies. Just because Paramount-Viacom & Pocket Books aren't specifically interested, doesn't mean we (The Fans,) should stop writing, designing fan-sites, & uploading/submitting stories at Geocities, Angelfire, Freewebs, Trek Writers' Guild & beyond.
"Star Trek: New Worlds"
http://www.geocities.com/trekwriter31/FanFic.html
On the SPECIFIC subject of Data and B4... Sure! Why not! That IS the beauty of fan fiction, after all, right? *hearing the Generations Overture swelling.*
hellsgate
Commodore
Nah, now that Paramount-Viacom has dropped the ball with Martin Madden taking over for Riker, and decided to replace Madden with Commander Worf, BUT Martin Madden's deleted scenes are still out there, we're free to do with him as we (the internet fan fic writers,) want.
We can re-write Madden into any scenario we want. The deleted Madden (& the assurance he WON'T suddenly crop back up later Kirk-style,) works in fan fic writers' favor.
I keep seeing posts here from fanfic writers worried about canon and consistency and whatnot, and I don't get the point. A lot of classic fanfic was written with the specific intent of doing things contradictory to canon, to explore other possibilities.
With the reference in question, I think Christopher only really objected to the notion that because Madden exists in the deleted scenes that he must be considered part of the established canon. I also think Christopher has other issues with the deleted scene as well.
I like the concept of Madden, and were I a serious fanfic writer, I would probably include him (in fact, I tried a fanfic several years ago set 10 years after Nemesis... Madden was the XO on the Enterprise until I killed him off and replaced him with Worf). I wouldn't expect Christopher to have any objections to people diverging from the established canon and using Madden in their fanfics, and using the justification that because he appears in a deleted scene, he's fair game.
I like the concept of Madden, and were I a serious fanfic writer, I would probably include him (in fact, I tried a fanfic several years ago set 10 years after Nemesis... Madden was the XO on the Enterprise until I killed him off and replaced him with Worf). I wouldn't expect Christopher to have any objections to people diverging from the established canon and using Madden in their fanfics, and using the justification that because he appears in a deleted scene, he's fair game.
I haven't even seen Nemesis, but I would've picked Madden just because I'm a fan of Robert Culp (and his end in ENT was equally as unfortunate as Trip's...don't get me started on that either), but, it is what it is. Que sera sera.
I never even thought of Madden existing 'for real'. Since his deleted scenes were never edited back into the film proper, then they never existed, as far as canon goes.
Something like ST VI is different, though. Colonel West, for example, is canon, because his scenes were made part of the film itself. They weren't just tacked on at the end. They were, in a sense, no longer deleted scenes.
Something like ST VI is different, though. Colonel West, for example, is canon, because his scenes were made part of the film itself. They weren't just tacked on at the end. They were, in a sense, no longer deleted scenes.
You mean Steven Culp. Robert Culp was the co-star of I Spy and The Greatest American Hero. They're not related.
DANG IT!!
I knew something sounded wrong about "Robert Culp." I should've trusted my instincts and looked it up.
Oh well, this is just as good a time as any to remind people that I've never claimed to be perfect.
I think that's still an open question. There's been some discussion about that regarding the TMP DE, and maybe also the TUC one as well.
^You could be right. I don't spend as much time in the Movies forum as I used to.
The problem is that it isn't quite valid to equate "canon" with "real within the universe." The canon, literally, is the original body of work, in this case the body of filmed works produced by Desilu/Paramount/CBS. But that body of work contains parts that have been contradicted and parts that have been ignored. ST V is part of the canon, but its claims about the travel time to the center of the galaxy have been ignored by VGR. "The Alternative Factor" is part of the canon, but its claims about antimatter and the threat of universal annihilation it poses have been ignored by all subsequent ST productions.
So which version of a recut film is canonical? Probably both of them, since both were official releases. But which is real in-universe? There's no way to answer that question unless a future production comes along that either confirms or contradicts the added portions. Although one could make a case that the later version would supersede the original version, in the same way that later episodes' claims about the universe (whether the behavior of antimatter or the timeframe of the series or the appearance of an alien species or anything else that's been retconned) is assumed to supersede earlier claims.
As far as the books go, I think the policy would be to err on the side of inclusion and favor the revised version of a film. Although it's not like we Trek authors consult some big rulebook of Canon with clauses and subclauses that spell out what we can and can't do. We just ask Paula Block whether we can do it or not. If she says it's okay, it's okay.
So which version of a recut film is canonical? Probably both of them, since both were official releases. But which is real in-universe? There's no way to answer that question unless a future production comes along that either confirms or contradicts the added portions. Although one could make a case that the later version would supersede the original version, in the same way that later episodes' claims about the universe (whether the behavior of antimatter or the timeframe of the series or the appearance of an alien species or anything else that's been retconned) is assumed to supersede earlier claims.
As far as the books go, I think the policy would be to err on the side of inclusion and favor the revised version of a film. Although it's not like we Trek authors consult some big rulebook of Canon with clauses and subclauses that spell out what we can and can't do. We just ask Paula Block whether we can do it or not. If she says it's okay, it's okay.
Not if they are only in a "bonus scenes" section.
And I think Paula Block looks at things on a case by case basis. eg. A future novel discussing Vejur's cloud (from TMP) might agree that it was two AUs in diameter (DVD DE) rather than 82 AUs (theatrical and TV versions), since two AUs is more believable.
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