No, not common. Common isn't a strong enough word. Mandatory is the word you want.
The rank of "Doctor"
- Thread starter Itisnotlogical
- Start date
No, not common. Common isn't a strong enough word. Mandatory is the word you want.
Actually, it isn't fact that they didn't start off in command at all.
We don't know exactly what career path that either Sisko or Janeway took in their early years. We can assume they didn't start off in command from the "indicated evidence", but there's no official evidence of that. Did they actually start off respectively as engineer and science officer, or did one or both start off in command and then switch as LaForge and Worf did? In the case of Worf, he made at least two career moves that we're aware of.
Was this in a book? If so, books aren't canon.
No.
So okay, we're saying that Sisko and Jayneway started their careers in engineering and science, respectively, and then decided to change their career paths to become command officers (thus leaving those other careers behind).
That's very different than requiring the ship's doctor to take charge in a crisis.
That's very different than requiring the ship's doctor to take charge in a crisis.
Well, I don't think that anyone here is arguing that a doctor should be required to take command, especially in a crisis. Just that a doctor that is capable of getting sufficient additional command training and does get that training should be able to take command of a bridge watch (something even a junior command officer can do - but I'd say for a non-command officer a senior rank might be a prerequisite) or even full command if so directed by the ship's commanding officer. Like Picard gave command to Crusher in 'Descent' or Riker - I presume it was him since I guess that's the XO's job - gave her the night watch to command in that other episode. So, no, a CMO is not a part of the regular chain of command but if he/she has the required training can on occasion be given a place in it.
Last edited:
That is what I was trying to get at, Dr. Crusher took a class (which we later see Troi go through, the one where Riker is her instructer and he tests Troi to see if she is willing to sacrafice a fellow crewmate to save the ship), this class seemed to be to become a bridge officer and was apparantly a pre-requisite to becoming a Commander (which is something that is common in real world applications, you are not eligible for promotion unless you have achieved certain requirements, many of which are special training or classes.)
I think in the same episode where Troi was taking the class, she asked Crusher why she worked on the bridge, and Crusher said something to the effect that she enjoyed learning to be a bridge officer and liked to keep her skills up.
Well, Sisko did start off as an engineer. In Homefront/Paradise Lost, it is said that before serving with Leyton on the Okinawa, all Sisko was interested in was engineering and starship design. It was Leyton who steered Sisko towards command.
Janeway, there's some wiggle room. We know she has some ground combat experience, in Prey she speaks of the time she spent on the front lines fighting against the Cardassians. However, I think we're supposed to assume she started her career off as a science officer.
Sisko's engineering background was established in Homefront/Paradise Lost, meanwhile Janeway's science background was mentioned quite frequently throughout Voyager, with the first referance being in Caretaker.
Picard had many hints that he was a pilot, as did Riker and Archer, not sure what Kirk did before he was Captain. Spock of coarse was a science officer. I seriously doubt you have to have a specific background to be in command, but I'm sure you have to have met a multitude of requirements other than just "I would really like them to be a Captain" says the admiral.
The actual line was:
LEYTON: Ironic, isn't it? When you came on board the Okinawa, you were more interested in engineering and ship design than command. But I promoted you to lieutenant commander, gave you the post of executive officer, and taught you everything I knew about being a leader.
We can infer several things from that line--either Sisko was an engineer (or operations officer) who was promoted to exec on the Okinawa, or Sisko was a command officer whose true passion wasn't in command, but in engineering (ala LaForge) and ship design, until Leyton made him his exec.
Or we could just say that there were indications that Sisko started off as an engineer and Janeway a sciences officer and both moved to command afterward...
Picard and Riker are only hinted to be pilots, Riker especially given how impressive his piloting skills are said to be. Archer was definately a pilot, the episode First Flight makes that very clear.
I think Kirk was the Farragut's tactical officer, so he would have tactical/security background.
Kirk was the helmsman, actually.
That's right too, in the 23rd century it was the helmsman who fired the ships weapons, wasn't it? I just remember he hesitated to fire on the cloud, and assumed that made him the tactical officer, due to my 22nd and 24th century way of thinking.
So if we accept Kirk was the helmsman and therefore a pilot, it would seem most Starfleet captains have a background as a pilot. Archer, Kirk, Sulu, Picard, Riker, just to name a few.
So if we accept Kirk was the helmsman and therefore a pilot, it would seem most Starfleet captains have a background as a pilot. Archer, Kirk, Sulu, Picard, Riker, just to name a few.
The actual "Obsession" dialogue states that Lieutenant Kirk was "at the phaser station".
This does not sound like the helm pulpit at all; Kirk might instead have been part of a phaser crew in a facility similar to the one seen in "Balance of Terror". That facility was crewed by goldshirted people, FWIW.
Alternately, Kirk may not have been aboard the ship at all. Every instance of hesitating to fire the phasers in "Obsession" involves hand phasers. Perhaps Kirk was part of a landing party that surveyed a planet, and was told to cover the party with his hand phaser? He would then have done the exact same thing the young Garrovick did, failing to fire before the cloud englobed the landing party and killed the older Garrovick.
It should be noted that the ability of the creature to penetrate into a starship comes as a rude surprise to our heroes in "Obsession". This quite heavily suggests that the creature never penetrated into the Farragut, and lends credence to the idea that Lieutenant Kirk's "phaser station" was on a suitable hilltop. It's not terminology we find attached to the landing parties of TOS - but if the creature managed to affect 200 people without penetrating the starship, we're not talking about a TOS-style landing party here anyway, but of a more massive undertaking.
Timo Saloniemi
This does not sound like the helm pulpit at all; Kirk might instead have been part of a phaser crew in a facility similar to the one seen in "Balance of Terror". That facility was crewed by goldshirted people, FWIW.
Alternately, Kirk may not have been aboard the ship at all. Every instance of hesitating to fire the phasers in "Obsession" involves hand phasers. Perhaps Kirk was part of a landing party that surveyed a planet, and was told to cover the party with his hand phaser? He would then have done the exact same thing the young Garrovick did, failing to fire before the cloud englobed the landing party and killed the older Garrovick.
It should be noted that the ability of the creature to penetrate into a starship comes as a rude surprise to our heroes in "Obsession". This quite heavily suggests that the creature never penetrated into the Farragut, and lends credence to the idea that Lieutenant Kirk's "phaser station" was on a suitable hilltop. It's not terminology we find attached to the landing parties of TOS - but if the creature managed to affect 200 people without penetrating the starship, we're not talking about a TOS-style landing party here anyway, but of a more massive undertaking.
Timo Saloniemi
I always thought that it was stupid to have a tactical station and not use it, I think that was more to use a main character to do something cool rather than what should have been.
Archer was definately a pilot but he was already a commander when he was a test pilot, he could have been something else before hand.
