Spoilers The Problem with Elnor

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by TJ Sinclair, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. And given how they broaded the scope of the season with the xBs I think
    Indeed.
     
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  2. Mach5

    Mach5 Admiral Admiral

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    I love how Elnor cold-bloodily executes a guy that he (considering his skill level) could've incapacitated with minimal effort and Picard is angry with him for about eleven seconds.

    After that he's basically a character that does nothing. He could have been written out from every episode since and it wouldn't have affected the story in any way.
     
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  3. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Huh?

    He's doing fine!
     
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  4. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Absolutely. Regardless of my ambivalence towards the *character*, Evagora is absolutely nailing the performance aspect.
     
  5. AndorianAle

    AndorianAle Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  6. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Your feelings regarding Elnor strike me as a bit premature. Tomorrow the tenth episode of "Picard" will drop and we'll only be midway through the story. Though he taps into a Legolas vibe I would not be surprised if his story is played out to be more similar to that of Samwise - I mean you can't have everyone be broken.
     
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  7. picardjean-luc

    picardjean-luc Captain Captain

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    By finding him a mate I suppose. He's young, handsome, and has bad-ass swordsfighting skills. Most girls would've found him irrresistable.

    Any takers?? (My guess: He'll be paired with Soji in Season 2 ;);))
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Tomorrow Never Knows Premium Member

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    He would make a fine tutor for children of a retired naval officer.
     
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  9. J.T. Kirok

    J.T. Kirok Ensign Newbie

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    He's a ninja samurai. Once he pulls his blade he has to use it. Picard was a little angry but his life was saved so he got over it.

    We don't know that and he is proof that not all Romulans are bad. I think we are going to see him learn and become more as time goes by.
     
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  10. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Midway through the story of Jean-Luc Picard's (presumably) final years. Not midway through the arc of this season -- we'll be at the end. Chabon has said this arc -- the major plot we've been dealing with since Remembrance -- is his story, and he got to finish it. That means this arc is 9/10s of the way through. And I am referring to Elnor's place in this arc. So no, at 90% percent complete, I've given it more than enough time. I am looking at this season, because of what we've been told about how it's laid out, as a complete arc, the same way Discovery's first season was an arc about the Klingon War and the Mirror Unvierse, and was then mostly resolved; and Discovery's second season was about Spock and the Red Angel, and was mostly resolved. This story about the Romulans hunting the synths and the xBs will mostly be resolved - and within this story arc, Elnor does not serve much of a purpose. If they're introducing him in season one to focus on him in season two, okay, but they forgot to make him matter in season one along the way, and that's still an issue of construction.

    I don't need a "broken" character. And I don't mind the kind of character Elnor is in and of itself. What I mind is that we're getting this instead of what I believe to be a more valid, interesting, and relevant perspective -- both relevant as social commentary, and relevant to exploring Picard's arc as a character -- from a more typical Romulan survivor. Because we were told that the Romulan refugee crisis and the supernova survivors would form part of the story of this season - you can argue that they have - but Elnor doesn't represent that story well, in my opinion, because as a Qowat Milat, he is so far removed from the experience of the every day Romulan, and grew up essentially shielded from the worst of it by the nuns. He, compared to the other Romulans, actually comes from a place of privilege in this scenario, and I feel like with him the way he is, we're missing out on a valuable perspective.

    I don't hate Elnor. I dislike that we have a "space elf samurai" instead of someone that truly represents a "Romulan refugee," and also that since we have the "space elf samurai," he has been at a remove from the character to whom he is most relevant and therefore any situation that could offer us insight into that perspective. It's like expecting a Romulan story from Nemesis and getting the Reman story we had instead. Elnor's actions on the Artifact could have been performed by any character, or by none at all, and had the same outcome. Hugh could have been left on his own, called in Seven for backup, and died before she got there. If you want someone to serve as a touchstone for Seven in the Queencell, what about Soji's Trill friend from episode 2, who is introduced, calls Narek hot, and is never seen again? She could've had a couple more scenes to remind us of her existence, and then been the one to answer Seven's question "what the hell is happening on this Cube." For all it meant, Elnor's role on the Cube could've been performed by anyone, that's how little effect he had; whereas if Elnor had stuck by Picard, we might have actually gotten some of the refugee insight that's so sorely lacking. The changes I'm talking about would have been so simple, and would, from my perspective as a writer, have made more sense. Feel free to disagree, feel free to like things as they are, but don't tell me I'm wrong or that I'm not giving things enough of a chance.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Since I don't think the Romulan refugee story is done then I will say it is premature to call it thus.
     
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  12. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's fair, it may not be. And I never said the Romulan refugee story would be completely over. I said the arc of this season will be. We may find out tonight, we may have to wait till season two. But even if not, as I said above, I still feel they should have given Elnor a better anchor or purpose for the arc of this season. We don't even know who among this season's characters are coming back for the next, apart from Picard himself. We don't know where the story will go from here, so I'm evaluating Chabon's season one arc on its own.

    I hope we get more from Elnor in episode 10, and I hope we see him and the rest going forward. I imagine if we lose any of the regulars, it will be Agnes (as penance), but we'll see.

    I do expect that over the next two seasons, they'll want to explore more than just the Romulans and the Borg, and Picard's relationships with other powers and major players would make natural story hooks. I'd be surprised if we didn't get an arc focused on the Klingons, and at least an episode on the Cardassians. I'm expecting something of a "greatest hits" tour for Picard, including Guinan and Q somewhere along the line. Maybe even Sela or Ro. We'll see.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Again, I will disagree because that isn't the arc of the season. It is focused on Picard coming to terms with personal mistakes and working through his own relationships. Elnor is one, but not the only one.

    I truly do hope we get more of the Romulan refugee plot but the season arc is definitely not on that. I am hoping far more focus on Romulans and less on a tour of Picard's greatest hits.
     
  14. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think we're speaking at cross purposes. What you describe there, to me, is Picard's personal character arc, and that will be played out over the course of the entire show. When I refer to the "arc of season one," I'm solely referring to the main storyline of Zhat Vash vs. Androids and xBs, Picard's quest to save Soji, and the truth behind the Mars attack. That's the arc of season one, and we are about to see its completion. Within that arc, is where I'm having a hard time seeing Elnor's place beyond bouncing around and not having much of an effect anywhere (yet). Perhaps episode 10 will show us something awesome that will make Elnor's presence - within this season's main storyline - be more impactful. I hope so.

    I would love that, but the show is Star Trek: Picard, not Star Trek: Legacy of Romulus. We simply don't know which way they'll go, other than the stated intent to see Guinan in season two. If they do spin-off Seven into her own Fenris Rangers series -- something I'd like but don't necessarily count on -- then I would absolutely expect to see more of the refugee story play out there.

    It's all up in the air as yet, and this is all pure speculation, some of it reasonable based on present indications, some of it just wishful thinking on my part. We may have a better clue after the season finale, or if it's a relatively cold ending, we may have to wait a lot longer before we know.

    Overall, I'm happy with Picard, and I'm happy to finally have gotten the Romulan story we've been promised after the disalpointment of Nemesis, the untimely cancellation of Enterprise just before the Romulan war got started, and the false hope of ST09 actually showing us anything meaningful about the Romulans. Picard is making good on its Romulan promises, even if it's not exactly the focus on them I would wish. They're giving us a solid show, despite some missteps and pacing issues and I look forward to the next episode and the next season (hopefully two) with great anticipation and excitement.
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Which is where I see Elnor fitting.
     
  16. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And he does, there. I just think two purposes could've been served instead of just the one, with relative ease.

    With a series like this, that tells a decompressed story in a compressed episode count, every regular character needs to serve a three-fold purpose: 1) a purpose within any given episode in which they appear; 2) a purpose within the story arc of the season; 3) a continuing purpose that carries them through their entire time on the series.

    That's a basic principle of serialized storytelling. For me, Elnor's had varying degrees of success at point one, little to none at point two, and point three remains to be seen, though signs are hopeful. Point three is where his interactions with Picard come into play. Point two is where I think the character more or less fails, at present, especially in comparison to most of the other regulars. Even if Elnor's main purpose in the series doesn't manifest til next season, he still needed more of a point in this one, for this story.

    Again, my assessment. I do not mean to disparage your love for the character in any way.
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I take none of it as a disparagement, nor do I have such a love for the character to feel it must be protected at all costs-honestly, I like him more because of his warrior ethos, his absolute candor in contrast to the duplicitous nature of many other Romulans and his sense of duty harking back to Balance of Terror.

    Regardless, I think Elnor's point two is to serve as a reminder to Picard of his failure, and his releasing of Elnor from his service is highly symbolic.

    Again, I think that this story has too many elements to allow for much more to be woven in. I feel like once they went with the xB's and Synth storyline that the Romulan refugee status would be more limited. It's disappointing but I think the emphasis on the synths took priority.
     
  18. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like those things about him to, as I much prefer TOS Romulans (especially the two Commanders), over TNG-era Romulans, and its why I have such an abiding love for the Rihannsu novels.

    That's absolutely accurate. The refugee story slid off the radar when the focus became the synths and xBs. That's fine for now, I just hope it isn't abandoned entirely, and at the same time, I hope it doesn't dominate the rest of the show because I do want to see more to Picard than only Romulans and Borg. But because the refugee situation isn't the focus I was hoping it would be, I think having that refugee perspective character on board instead of a Qowat Milat outsider would keep it fresh for both Picard and the audience until the story circles back to it naturally. It's just a matter of perspective.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    That's fair. I don't think for the story being told it would have been additive at this point.

    I might be wrong but the synth storyline takes up so much that the refugee character would be more a distraction. The outsider character is more interesting in this introductory season.
     
  20. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He is interesting, and he has nearly unlimited potential. For me, I'm just not sure if -- at present -- he's as interesting, or fits as well as he could with what the series feels like it's about.

    For example: We get a tantalizing reference to the "Romulan Rebirth Movement" without any real detail. Are they just Romulan nationlists? Or maybe they're about a cultural rebirth? Could some of them want to return the Romulans to the TOS era sense of honor? What about reunification with Vulcan? Did that idea die without Spock? Or because of the Federation's betrayal? Or is it still there, somewhere like with D'Tan in Star Trek Online? That's all supposition, but if you replace Elnor's Qowat Milat affiliation with the Rebirth Movement or even the Unificationists, we probably would have gotten more insight into the refugees than we have, without substantively altering the story, events or focus of the season.

    Still, we have what we have. And it's not bad. It just so easily could have been more. Hopefully things like the Rebirth Movement get explored, and we see the refugees as more than just background.