Spoilers The Problem with Elnor

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by TJ Sinclair, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So I wish they had given us, instead, a character who couldn't help but dwell on it. Because that perspective is sorely lacking, for both us as viewers, and for Picard himself.
     
  2. Khan Jr

    Khan Jr Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Elnor's been completely superfluous after his debut. Tighter scripting would have cut him at that point.

    The writers haven't even been remembering his plot points episode by episode.

    "Absolute Candor" - Elnor swears not to kill and does a little ritual to seal that promise. "The Impossible Box" - Elnor kills as if that never happened, right in front of Picard, who'd pitched a fit about it and insisted on the promise in the first place.

    Also "The Impossible Box" - Picard tries to release Elnor from service, but Elnor refuses. "Broken Pieces" - Oh yeah, I'm totally released. Committed to an even hopeless-er cause. So hopeless he accomplishes nothing, watching Seven accomplish nothing, until the Romulans just leave on their own.
     
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  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    To draw the comparison out further this season of Picard is one episode, which means future episodes may well explore it further.

    I think there is so much more for Elnor as a character, both his own challenges with Picard and his relationship and finding his place within the larger universe, potentially representative of a new age for Romulans.

    Do I think there is more potential there? Of course. But, I think this is putting a whole lot of pressure on this one episode arc than is necessary.

    Both fit with themes of Picard as a character.
     
  4. Danja

    Danja Captain Captain

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    So you want brooding ninja boy?

    We already have a brooding, emo Romulan -- Narek.
     
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  5. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, I don't think it is, because for this arc, Elnor barely has a purpose. And what purpose he does have would be better served, IMO, by the kind of character I suggest, without it being anymore difficult to write.



    Narek has no relationship with Picard, so he doesn't serve the purpose I'm discussing at all, nor does he offer any insight onto the refugee situation because he's pure Tal Shiar, with that infrastructure behind him. He's utterly irrelevant to the issues I have.

    I don't need a "broody" character on La Sirena. Rios and Raffi have that more than covered at times. But what I want is a character who shows us what it was like to live as a Romulan survivor. Elnor, as he is portrayed, doesn't serve that purpose. Nor does Narek. But Elnor so easily could have.
     
  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Then I will disagree at this point.
     
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  7. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's completely fair. We have differing perspectives. Neither one of us is inherently "right" or "wrong."
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    :beer:
     
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  9. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I like Elnor, but, yeah it does seem the character has been rather directionless. When he's first introduced it seemed they were setting him up as a sort of surrogate son for Picard in addition to his badass fighting skills. But then while at Freecloud Elnor basically becomes comic relief and not long afterwards he stays behind at the Borg ship first helping out Hugh and now he seems to be becoming Seven's sidekick.
     
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  10. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Elnor being lost, overwhelmed, or even directionless in the situations in which he finds himself is perfectly natural; I just don't like that his place in the story is as uncertain as he is of himself.
     
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  11. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's what I was trying to get at. The way him being lost, overwhelmed and directionless is done feels more like the writers just aren't sure what to do with the character more than it feels like any sort of character development of Elnor.
     
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  12. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    As a character, Elnor is fine. However, for the story they're telling he's just kind of there. Everyone else serves a greater purpose and has more to do.

    His fish out of water situation would be interesting but they barely pay any attention to it. It's like how Mayweather had the most potential of everyone on Enterprise because he's probably logged more time in space than everyone else combined who ranks higher than him, but they never did anything with it. Imagine being more experienced and knowledgeable than everyone else on the bridge but you're just an ensign. Lots of storytelling opportunity there that went untouched.

    Someone in another thread suggested Elnor's there just to be moved over to the potential Seven of Nine rangers series, and that doesn't sound far-fetched at all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
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  13. Anduinel

    Anduinel Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I'd probably lean more that way if we had more of a sense that Elnor was feeling pulled between his choices. Even something as simple as him starting off addressing Seven instead of Picard in the last ep would help with that impression re: "Forgive me. I know I committed my sword to your people..."(then to Picard) "...but you need my protection more than ever."

    As it is, there seems to be a lot more indecision on the writers' part than Elnor's. Which, really, I'm not inclined to complain too much about, because I'd rather have imperfect delivery of a character I like and see a lot of potential in than get a perfectly arced bowl of bland porridge. But the flightiness stands out enough that I noticed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  14. Danja

    Danja Captain Captain

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    Elnor doesn't quite trust Picard (Picard abandoned him twice).
     
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    That would be one of the main arcs for his character.
     
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  16. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Which is hard to explore when we haven't seen much of them together for anything in-depth.
     
  17. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Elnor took a backseat to other characters this season, at least, later in the season. I'm guessing they do more with him in the next. Or in an entirely new series, depending on where they take him, Seven, the XB's, and that regenerating cube.
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Again, mileage :)
     
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  19. Danja

    Danja Captain Captain

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    I don't think you've given the show enough time to develop (I remember when Seven of Nine was being called "Borg Barbie" and/or "T of A" on Voyager).

    There's only so much that can be done in ten episodes.


    IOW, he's hotheaded (not uncommon for a man his age).


    They didn't just leave on their own; the ex-Borgs killed them!

    Seven kicked their bodies out of the way:

    https://twitter.com/startrekcbs/status/1242224608239116293?s=20


    And Seven accomplished something -- she literally became Queen of the Cube.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  20. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Of course not, but endlessly analyzing the media we consume is something that we as fans do. It's a part of the enjoyment of it. I'm not *slagging* the show, I'm *analyzing it's structure* as both a fan and a writer myself, and finding that this one aspect in particular does not make sense to me as presented. This leads me to postulate alternatives that may have given a different result within the same general structure. Your analysis is different than mine, and that's fine.

    I'm not expecting great detail from every character, but 9 episodes out of 10 in seems like plenty of time *within the arc of this season* for Elnor's presence to have a demonstrated point. So far, in my estimation, it's been wildly inconsistent at best. We'll see if the next episode makes it any clearer. That's *my* analysis, and that's *all*. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I'm saying the character, cool as he is, *doesn't work for me* as presented, and how, I think he could have been different in ways that would have benefitted the show. If that's something you have a problem with, I don't know what to tell you, because we've been having these kinds of discussions since the dawn of fandom.
     
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