Spoilers The Problem with Elnor

[fireproof78]

He is interesting, and he has nearly unlimited potential. For me, I'm just not sure if -- at present -- he's as interesting, or fits as well as he could with what the series feels like it's about.

For example: We get a tantalizing reference to the "Romulan Rebirth Movement" without any real detail. Are they just Romulan nationlists? Or maybe they're about a cultural rebirth? Could some of them want to return the Romulans to the TOS era sense of honor? What about reunification with Vulcan? Did that idea die without Spock? Or because of the Federation's betrayal? Or is it still there, somewhere like with D'Tan in Star Trek Online? That's all supposition, but if you replace Elnor's Qowat Milat affiliation with the Rebirth Movement or even the Unificationists, we probably would have gotten more insight into the refugees than we have, without substantively altering the story, events or focus of the season.

Still, we have what we have. And it's not bad. It just so easily could have been more. Hopefully things like the Rebirth Movement get explored, and we see the refugees as more than just background.

I honestly want all of that. But, I genuinely want it to have its own season with none of the synth and Borg BS.

 

[TJ Sinclair]

I honestly want all of that. But, I genuinely want it to have its own season

On this, we agree. In a perfect world, that's what I'd want. But with so little time in which to work, I'm afraid we'll have to be content that the producers will probably split the focus.

with none of the synth and Borg BS.

I don't know that I'd go so far as to call it "BS". A show about Patrick Stewart "saying goodbye" to the role of Jean-Luc Picard is going to hit on certain touchstones. The Borg are perhaps the single most important one. Data's death is another. Linking those seems natural, and putting the whole thing in the context of the Romulan supernova also feels like something necessary because up until now that's the only thing we knew about the post-Nemesis era. So there's reasons for everything to be here like it is, and honestly they're dong a better job of integrating it all than I expected. And the opening scene of the series, establishing a sort of metaphysical link between "All Good Things", Nemesis and the "now" of Picard was utterly brilliant.

I loved episode one, though I wish the Soji reveal had been put off, so Picard and the audience could both have had more time to process and mourn Dahj's death.

But I absolutely hated most things about episode two. The concept of the Zhat Vash at that time just felt like another case of "the old boogeyman isn't good enough anymore, so let's make one he's afraid of," that kind of thing has been done over and over and over. But after a while, the concept actually clicked, even if I don't appreciate Narek and Narissa as characters (or actors) all that much. There were more obvious ways that they could have gone with it, and they avoided all of those, so I'm happy with where we've ended up, for the most part.

The one thing I really did love about episode two was Laris going all CSI: Romulan. I love that character, and Orla Brady the actress, so much. I'm so glad both she and Zhaban survived episode three -- I was really expecting one of them to die -- and I hope they're both still there when Picard makes it back to Earth. Or that we'll see them again if he doesn't return to Earth before the end of the series.

Episode three was better, and episode 4 is where we meet Elnor. I liked the story, I liked the characters, but it felt like all forward motion stopped, so it bugged me. Then we get a stretch of awesomeness from episodes 5, 6 and 7, and then the necessary exposition of episode 8 so the two part finale can tell its story without having to waste time explaining the mystery so far and can just get on with it already.

So for me the first four episodes are uneven (one great, one bad, one decent, one slow), the next three are great, the eighth is necessarily slower and talky, but still good at it IMO. And then we had part one of the finale, which... I liked, I guess. It felt a bit uneven, but again, viewing it in context without part two, it's not going to play as well. We'll see how it goes, when the finale goes live in about an hour. Hopefully we're both satisfied.

Incidentally, this will be the only time I've watched a Picard episode without my boyfriend first. There was someone infected at his work, so now we're quarantined away from each other waiting out two weeks because I have an autoimmune disorder and can't risk seeing him until we're sure he's clear.

 

[Turtletrekker]

On this, we agree. In a perfect world, that's what I'd want. But with so little time in which to work, I'm afraid we'll have to be content that the producers will probably split the focus.



I don't know that I'd go so far as to call it "BS". A show about Patrick Stewart "saying goodbye" to the role of Jean-Luc Picard is going to hit on certain touchstones. The Borg are perhaps the single most important one. Data's death is another. Linking those seems natural, and putting the whole thing in the context of the Romulan supernova also feels like something necessary because up until now that's the only thing we knew about the post-Nemesis era. So there's reasons for everything to be here like it is, and honestly they're dong a better job of integrating it all than I expected. And the opening scene of the series, establishing a sort of metaphysical link between "All Good Things", Nemesis and the "now" of Picard was utterly brilliant.

I loved episode one, though I wish the Soji reveal had been put off, so Picard and the audience could both have had more time to process and mourn Dahj's death.

But I absolutely hated most things about episode two. The concept of the Zhat Vash at that time just felt like another case of "the old boogeyman isn't good enough anymore, so let's make one he's afraid of," that kind of thing has been done over and over and over. But after a while, the concept actually clicked, even if I don't appreciate Narek and Narissa as characters (or actors) all that much. There were more obvious ways that they could have gone with it, and they avoided all of those, so I'm happy with where we've ended up, for the most part.

The one thing I really did love about episode two was Laris going all CSI: Romulan. I love that character, and Orla Brady the actress, so much. I'm so glad both she and Zhaban survived episode three -- I was really expecting one of them to die -- and I hope they're both still there when Picard makes it back to Earth. Or that we'll see them again if he doesn't return to Earth before the end of the series.

Episode three was better, and episode 4 is where we meet Elnor. I liked the story, I liked the characters, but it felt like all forward motion stopped, so it bugged me. Then we get a stretch of awesomeness from episodes 5, 6 and 7, and then the necessary exposition of episode 8 so the two part finale can tell its story without having to waste time explaining the mystery so far and can just get on with it already.

So for me the first four episodes are uneven (one great, one bad, one decent, one slow), the next three are great, the eighth is necessarily slower and talky, but still good at it IMO. And then we had part one of the finale, which... I liked, I guess. It felt a bit uneven, but again, viewing it in context without part two, it's not going to play as well. We'll see how it goes, when the finale goes live in about an hour. Hopefully we're both satisfied.

Incidentally, this will be the only time I've watched a Picard episode without my boyfriend first. There was someone infected at his work, so now we're quarantined away from each other waiting out two weeks because I have an autoimmune disorder and can't risk seeing him until we're sure he's clear.

I wish the two of you health and a quick reunion.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't know that I'd go so far as to call it "BS". A show about Patrick Stewart "saying goodbye" to the role of Jean-Luc Picard is going to hit on certain touchstones. The Borg are perhaps the single most important one. Data's death is another.

I call it BS because I'm fatigued of Borg. In my opinion going from the Romulan refugee plot was a weird place to start going in to the synth plot.

Linking those seems natural, and putting the whole thing in the context of the Romulan supernova also feels like something necessary because up until now that's the only thing we knew about the post-Nemesis era.

I will disagree that it meshes naturally. However, this series has impressed me with its ability to take disparate elements and weave them together in a decent way.

But, I would be happy to leave the Borg behind.

 

[Kilana2]

The show has shown us a diffent side of the Romulans so far, and I like it.
But I have to agree - no more Borg.

 

[TJ Sinclair]

Beginning with "Descent," the Borg progressively lost their teeth each time we saw them, especially over the last half of Voyager. They've never been more terrifying or threatening or successful as antagonists from a narrative perspective than they were in "The Best of Both Worlds," and every subsequent appearance has cheapened and weakend them as a concept, apart from, "I, Borg," which was a valid Trekkian examination of who they are underneath the "villainy."

Even First Contact just used them in as a form of generic zombie, and for me, introducing the concept of the Queen robbed them of their uniqueness as a foe. If you personify a force of nature that was intended to represent the loss of of self, you inherently weaken the concept and make it far less scary.

So yes, I've been tired of the Borg since 1993, but for a show focused on Jean-Luc Picard, they simply must be dealt with. And Picard has done it well, by *not* showing us the same old Borg Collective as the villain it always is, but by following up on "I, Borg" far better than "Descent" did, and giving us this kind of very personal, intentional examination of them. But now that we've done that, yes, it's time to move in other directions.

 

[fireproof78]

So yes, I've been tired of the Borg since 1993, but for a show focused on Jean-Luc Picard, they simply must be dealt with.

I disagree on this point so strongly. The Borg were never a "must be dealt with" since First Contact. Picard had been able to put to rest a lot of the trauma and pain.
Now...

And Picard has done it well, by *not* showing us the same old Borg Collective as the villain it always is, but by following up on "I, Borg" far better than "Descent" did, and giving us this kind of very personal, intentional examination of them.

...I agree on this point, but that was an unexpected surprise, and certainly not one that "must" be dealt with. I would argue that the refugee plot is much more of a must than anything to do with the Borg. That Picard did well with the Borg in spite of this limitation is commendable. But, the Borg and the synths were unnecessary to my mind.

 

[TJ Sinclair]

I disagree on this point so strongly. The Borg were never a "must be dealt with" since First Contact. Picard had been able to put to rest a lot of the trauma and pain.

Wow, what a simplistic perspective on the complex nature of trauma and recovery.

Beyond that, in a show with a stated purpose of examining the character when he's faced with impending mortality, to not deal with the single most significant event that we ever see happen to Picard in the character's entire history would be a failure of narrative conceptualization.

 

[fireproof78]

Wow, what a simplistic perspective on the complex nature of trauma and recovery.

In a narrative sense, yes. From a realistic point of view I can see the argument of having Picard continue to work through that trauma and would normally agree with it. But, the idea that is "must be" from a narrative sense is one that I struggle with.

As much as I champion realism in my fiction Trek has not historically dealt with trauma in a realistic fashion. And, even if we deal with trauma that doesn't necessitate the Borg returning in a physical fashion.

Beyond that, in a show with a stated purpose of examining the character when he's faced with impending mortality, to not deal with the single most significant event that we ever see happen to Picard in the character's entire history would be a failure of narrative conceptualization.

Completely disagree but the story turned out well so I am glad for that.

 

[Go-Captain]

Having seen the final episode I think Elnor's perceptiveness and openness should have been utilized with the characters learning to trust and exploit it. It would have been nice for Rios and Raffi to look to Elnor to decide whether they should extend their trust. Instead they decided on their own and Elnor is just along for the ride like much of the season.

Raffi and Elnor should be an unstoppable interrogation team, because nothing will get past Elnor and Raffi would know all the right questions to ask. It could have been a great scene.

 

[Danja]

Having seen the final episode I think Elnor's perceptiveness and openness should have been utilized with the characters learning to trust and exploit it. It would have been nice for Rios and Raffi to look to Elnor to decide whether they should extend their trust. Instead they decided on their own and Elnor is just along for the ride like much of the season.

Elnor is also young and inexperienced in the ways of the outside world.

 

[Rainard Fox]

I like Elnor. His innocence and naivety are refreshing. He naively thought that he and his sword could single-handedly save the day on the Borg cube only to get a shocking lesson in reality. I think that Hugh's death is the first step of his growth and maturity in his journey to become a hero.

I'm afraid not. The responsibility Elnor took for Hugh was the moment of his actual moral growing. It was perfect moment, for me it was the peak of the entire season. Hugh's death was like... go back to your sandbox, kid, cry and call mommy.

 

[Rainard Fox]

Ah, look at all the lonely xBs
Ah, look at all the lonely xBs

Elnor Rigby
Picks up his knife on Vashti where beheading has been
Lives here with nuns
Waits at the window
Wearing the sword that he keeps in a jar by the door
Who is it for?

All the lonely xBs
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely xBs
Where do they all belong?

Qowat Milat nuns
Writing the words of a sermon that no man will hear
No one comes near
Look at them working
Binding their swords in the night when there's nobody there
What do they care?

All the lonely xBs
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely xBs
Where do they all belong?

Ah, look at all the lonely xBs
Ah, look at all the lonely xBs

Elnor Rigby
He chose to live, was not buried along with his name
Absolute Candor,
Admiral Picard
Fills him with joy as he binds his sword to a cause
No one was awed

All the lonely xBs (Ah, look at all the lonely xBs)
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely xBs (Ah, look at all the lonely xBs)
Where do they all belong?

You've made my day! Would you mind if I share a link to the post in my Twitter?

 

[Seven of Five]

I like Elnor, it's just a shame that his screen time has been eaten away by the short length of the season. I hope he develops more in S2.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You've made my day! Would you mind if I share a link to the post in my Twitter?

Sure, go ahead

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I would agree they established a cool character but haven't utilized him effectively yet. It's so jarring on the mood of the show when people suddenly get decapitated.

And it makes no sense to fight with a sword in this setting, even if it looks cool. And they solved it by making him Batman-good at fighting.

 

[Rainard Fox]

Sure, go ahead

Thank you. Done