Spoilers THE ORVILLE S1, E12: "MAD IDOLATRY" - SEASON FINALE

[Ovation]

You bet. You're implicitly stating that you believe there is no Bleem?! Yeah, belief is right there in the statement! Thanks for proving my point!

If you have factual evidence that Bleem doesn't exist, I'd grant you that it's a statement of fact. But, without that, it's merely a belief. Right now, there is no proof that god doesn't exist. It's hard to prove a negative anyway. Therefore, stating that god doesn't exist is a belief rather than a statement of fact. Logic.

I consider myself to be agnostic. I think it is unlikely that god exists, but I don't know for a fact that s/he doesn't exist.

Actually, we have more proof for the existence of Bleem than that of god (at the moment, Bleem is simply a neologism, one we can see on the screen—thus, it exists).

 

[Mr Awe]

^ Haha, I didn't realize bleem was an actual thing into now. Both a game system emulator and uh a state of mind. So, if you don't believe in bleem you are . . . plain wrong!

 

[Mudd]

Actually, we have more proof for the existence of Bleem than that of god (at the moment, Bleem is simply a neologism, one we can see on the screen—thus, it exists).

Exactly the point. God is the same thing - more familiar word, yes, but simply a concept to which different folks assign qualities and properties and then insist that it matters what someone else thinks of that. Hence the "nonbelief is a belief" rubbish. People who pull that on themselves have fallen for a trick in the nature of language that's not really different than "where does my fist go when I open my hand?'"

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

"where does my fist go when I open my hand?'"

Now I'm freaked out man.

 

[Forbin]

I actually CAN clap with one hand.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Now I'm freaked out man.

And now we know why Ar-Pharazon and Tommy Chong are never seen in the same place at the same time.

 

[Mr Awe]

Exactly the point. God is the same thing - more familiar word, yes, but simply a concept to which different folks assign qualities and properties and then insist that it matters what someone else thinks of that. Hence the "nonbelief is a belief" rubbish. People who pull that on themselves have fallen for a trick in the nature of language that's not really different than "where does my fist go when I open my hand?'"

Wow, apparently this is a hard concept for you to grasp. Yes, it's possible to believe that something exists or believe that something does not exist. If you're doing that without concrete evidence, it's a belief either way. That's the situation with god because we don't know.

When there is evidence that something does exist yet you state it doesn't exist, then you're just plain wrong. Such is the case with Bleem. It exists. You're wrong if you say it doesn't. You can say that you have a mistaken belief that Bleem does not exist.

All simple logic.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Can we have an arrogant thieving captain in the second season who commands a ship called the U.S.S. Axanar?

 

[Cyrus]

OK, now I can't get Bleem out of my mind. I may yet become a believer.

 

[DonIago]

OK, now I can't get Bleem out of my mind. I may yet become a Beleemer.

FTFY.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

There's always this guy

 

[Ovation]

Wow, apparently this is a hard concept for you to grasp. Yes, it's possible to believe that something exists or believe that something does not exist. If you're doing that without concrete evidence, it's a belief either way. That's the situation with god because we don't know.

No. Non-belief is NOT the same as belief that something does not exist. It is the ABSENCE of a belief. Nothing more. It is NOT an affirmative statement in need of “evidence” or “support”.

 

[Borg]

Similarities also to Voyager's "Blink of an Eye".

My thoughts exactly. I'd be very surprised if BOAE wasn't at least an inspiration for this episode. One might even go as far to say it "rips off" the Voyager episode to an extent (especially the Kelly == "The Sky Ship" thing). Whatever you choose to call it, I still think it's a great episode and there are certainly worse Trek episodes to base a story on. Actually, BOAE is one of my favorite ST stories of all time.

 

[The Wormhole]

There's always this guy

View attachment 3480

Touched by his Noodly Appendage.

 

[Mr Awe]

No. Non-belief is NOT the same as belief that something does not exist. It is the ABSENCE of a belief. Nothing more. It is NOT an affirmative statement in need of “evidence” or “support”.

Uh no, you believe in the state or condition of something. Stating that something does not exist is a belief because you are actively stating that something doesn't exist. Absence of a belief is "I don't know."

Tip: To clarify this issue, think about the differences behind why you'd say either "X doesn't exist" versus "I don't know whether X exists." The former is a belief about X while the latter is not.

 

[Satron]

Uh no, you believe in the state or condition of something. Stating that something does not exist is a belief because you are actively stating that something doesn't exist. Absence of a belief is "I don't know."

Tip: To clarify this issue, think about the differences behind why you'd say either "X doesn't exist" versus "I don't know whether X exists." The former is a belief about X while the latter is not.

You don't understand the meaning of atheism. Atheism is not a belief in the absence of a god. Atheism is the absence of belief in a god or supernatural beings.

 

[Satron]

Is this thread (or all Orville threads) going to be arguing about Religion until the 2nd season premiere?

I believe so.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Is this thread (or all Orville threads) going to be arguing about Religion until the 2nd season premiere?

Technically, the conversation has shifted from religion to belief (perhaps because some here think religion and belief are one and the same).

 

[Forbin]

I believe so.

 

[Ovation]

Uh no, you believe in the state or condition of something. Stating that something does not exist is a belief because you are actively stating that something doesn't exist. Absence of a belief is "I don't know."

Tip: To clarify this issue, think about the differences behind why you'd say either "X doesn't exist" versus "I don't know whether X exists." The former is a belief about X while the latter is not.

You are categorically wrong. An absence of belief is NOT affirmative. It requires no evidence. Atheism is an ABSENCE of belief. It is NOT a belief in and of itself.