Spoilers THE ORVILLE S1, E12: "MAD IDOLATRY" - SEASON FINALE

"Optimism!"

 

I appreciated the more optimistic approach, to be sure, even if it did kind of leave me feeling like Our Heroes got off lucky.

 

I loved the Slight Krypton Superman Reference in the end there with the glowing white clothes. The society and it's development and "growing pains" was a great way to show how not everything is doom and gloom when it comes to the advances of society, religion not withstanding.

 

It's just me, but I think Seth could leave religion alone now for at least a season. I'm on his "side," mostly, but I just got to thinking that he's made the same pretty specific point central to the stories at least twice this year.

 

I had that thought the last time the planet reappeared, "would it be a nuclear wasteland with Isaac sitting in a chair waiting for them?"

I like the actual end result a lot better and instead of Data's head sitting around for 500 years, you have an entire Isaac who is now 700 years older. I wonder if he got an upgrade?

 

So, does Isaac being on the planet for 700 years count as the completion of his officer exchange program, or does he have to stay until a certain pre-set date? Moot point, I guess, he's likely not leaving the show anyway, and even if they do eventually address his exchange program, they'll likely contrive a way for him to stay on the show anyway. But just a thought that occurred to me.

As I mentioned in my review post, MacFarlane harps on and on about religion on Family Guy all the time. I do agree with his views on the matter for the most part, but there are times when he does come off as shoving atheism in your face, which IMO is no better than the religious shoving their religions in your face.

 

Well he did spend the 700 years in another universe. The Union could say that the program has to be completed in this universe and since only a few days passed here, he has not completed the program yet.

That would have been a very twilight zone type ending.

 

The episodes that've dealt with religious themes this season where, to me, all pretty well done without bringing the "religion is bad and stupid!" hammer too much, especially when we compare it to Trek's similar episodes.

In "Who Watches the Watchers" after the crew finds out Picard is regarded as a deity on the proto-Vulcanoid planet one of the recovered anthropologists suggests to him to go down there and that, since the damage has been done, he needs to impose a doctrine on them so that they won't collapse into a holy war over his existence. Picard gets pissed off and says he won't impose commandments on them and send them back into the fear and superstition of a Dark Ages theological idolatry. This is pretty much the show saying "religion is bad, it makes people irrationally fearful and superstitious."

Neither of the "religious themed" episodes in The Orville has taken this approach. In "Should the Stars Appear" we see a religious society's leaders unwilling to reveal a potential truth to its people, worrying such knowledge would cause chaos and also cause the government to lose control, being willing to accept possible destruction rather than lose control. Not really saying "religion is bad" but that some people are more willing to hold onto their religion than they are willing to hold on to a proven truth that contradicts that religion even if it could mean their end. (Think of how many times someone has died because they, or their medical proxy, wanted "God to heal them" rather than modern medicine or medical procedures.)

"Mad Idolatry" doesn't take a "religion is bad" approach and instead suggests it's just part of a society's natural evolution over the course of millennia. That, yeah, people are killed in the name of religion, wars happen, and all of that but it's a necessary part of "growing up."

It's also worth noting that several times over the course of the season we've seen the crew make references to God, Heaven and Hell, using terms like "Thank God," "Heaven, forbid" and "Go to Hell." Sure this doesn't mean they see these as places or things that actually exist in some manner but they still have some concept of these religious things and haven't totally given up on religion. It's entirely possible it's still around but more as just something most secular societies today use it for, kind of there as a moral guidance or support but not a literal presentation of events, beings or how one should behave. America tends to be very, very radical when it comes to religious belief compared to most other "Western" nations. People in America are far more likely to be convinced that God has stepped in to perform some "miracle", or burned an image of Jesus into a piece of toast as a sign, or that angels present actual influence on events and are actual beings.

Humanity in the Orville time period could be more like how most other nations are, "The Bible is full of a lot of good ideas that some people take far too seriously."

 

I don't know how you can express the point that people are going to seize onto something to kill each other over regardless of what it is without it being an atheist message. But you know, if you can have shows with overt religious messages you can have shows with overt atheistic messages too. No big deal, I don't turn off shows for having religious messages, but you can turn off the show if you want to.

Come to think of it though there are interpretations of the episode that are not atheistic. South Park explored a similar idea where Cartman went to a future where everybody was atheist, and they still killed each other over different interpretations of atheism. If you see it as making the same point as that episode, it isn't an attack on religion, it's an attack on human nature.

 

Atheism is just another kind of religion anyway, from a certain POV.

 

Ed's reaction when Bortas asked if they wanted to play it on the bridge was good too.

 

Some atheist can be dogmatic, but no, atheism is not religion.

 

Since the existence of God can neither be proven nor disproven scientifically (yet), it comes down to a matter of faith on either side of the same coin on what one believes to be true. Hence, religion, in the strictest sense of the term.

 

Yeah, I liked that too. Though it's interesting Bortus goes from "it's not a game for humans" to wanting to play it on the bridge made up of, mostly, humans. And, well.... We're talking about a society that mostly shrugged off or didn't give much reaction to a man having his leg amputated because, seemingly, replacing it wasn't a big deal with their medical technology. You'd think a knife stabbing you through the hand would be seen as far less severe than having a limb removed. Sheesh, Ed. You big baby.

 

No. Not unless, to borrow an analogy I’ve seen in these parts, not collecting stamps counts as a hobby.

 

Atheism is absence of belief not a belief in the exact opposite.

 

Atheism is a religion in the same sense that not smoking is an addiction.

 

Atheism is simply non-belief in a deity or deities. It does not preclude one from being religious. However, taking a position on the existence of such deities does not make religion. Indeed, there are plenty of unreal things that atheists, monotheists, and polytheists can believe in that do not make for religion, like equality or justice.

 

Exactly so. If I tell you I'm an atheist, I've told you nothing about what I believe or what my "spiritual practice" might be. I've told you what I don't believe and probably don't do.