Spoilers The Orville: New Horizons Season 3 Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by tomalak301, Jun 2, 2022.

  1. Nerroth

    Nerroth Commodore Commodore

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    I'm a bit late to the party with this comment, but I wonder: at some point, might someone on the crew be upset at Isaac not because of the Kaylon invasion, but perhaps due to one (or more) of their crewmates being turned by the Arachnid* which he let get away?

    *According to the end credits of that episode, the bug creatures in the Kalarr Expanse are being referred to as "Arachnid Aliens".

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    Also, there were hints leading up to this episode that the Union was at risk of "losing the peace" as regards the Krill negotiations, even before Teleya's rise to the office of Supreme Chancellor.

    It seemed that they were far too eager to convince themselves that Krill sentiments would change so drastically in the Union's favour in the wake of the battle for Earth, despite even one of the Krill delegates involved in the negotiations bluntly telling them that he expected the alliance to be dissolved as soon as the Kaylon were no longer a threat. They seemed to be fairly clumsy in terms of their cultural outreach efforts, too.

    Which is not to excuse the reaction that led to Teleya's victory. But I do wonder whether or not the Union leadership ought to have taken a more measured approach towards improving Union-Krill relations, in order to give the more pragmatic elements of Krill politics and society more road to run on.

    Speaking of Krill society, I also can't help but wonder how much of the anti-Treaty sentiment is tied to the economic issues glanced at in this latest episode. If there is a significant underclass of poor or disadvantaged voters forced to live far from the neon lights of the Grand Marketplace, there might also be an electorally significant group with so little to lose, they'd latch onto whoever offers them a way out - only to find out the hard way that some paths lead to even more nightmarish outcomes than others.
     
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  2. Bornin1980something

    Bornin1980something Commander Red Shirt

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    It was intended to be an episode, but they had to drop it. I sure hope that glowing figure isn't Alara gone Fury.
    My family once complained to their predecessor, the Broadcasting Standards Commission, when a children's program did a short feature on nude surfboading. There were only five complaints, but it didn't happen again.
     
  3. Velocity

    Velocity Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I like the way The Orville presents different ways of dealing with or thinking about certain situations. They don't necessarily say this is the right way or the wrong way or even this is good and this is bad. It can make us think about something in a new way. Star Trek was always good when we were able to open our minds to a different viewpoint.
     
  4. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Most of the time Star Trek took a side on things.
     
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    More likely related to the fact that when Orville was on Fox, it aired on Thursdays. Hulu's just keeping the tradition.
    Only thing I can think up is that it ties in with observations people were making online during the first two seasons that the Krill are basically supposed to represent conservative Americans, so naturally they'd be anti-abortion. But yeah, within the context of the episode the scene does kind of stand out like a sore thumb in that it doesn't really fit with the narrative or the theme of the episode, it's just a brief digression that happens and then the episode moves on.
     
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  6. Velocity

    Velocity Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think it was pointing out that Teleya wasn't above bending the rules to gain power and keep it, so was she a hypocrite or did she really believe in Avis (rent-a-car) and all the Krill tenets? Did she hide her daughter just to keep power or did she do it because she cares for her? She seemed to have feelings for Ed, after all.
    Showing the "would be parents" that there was an actual life destroyed is not that bad a punishment (if that's the only punishment they get) because they might not choose to flout the law again after it.
    Krill seems a more xenophobic totalitarian than conservative place to me.
     
  7. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I really thought that the couple who got the abortion we’re going to get vaporized or killed in some way.
     
  8. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, I think that is the point. We see the same thing today in countries with the rise of populism. Right wing and left wing populist politicians appeal to people who see themselves as disenfranchised, downtrodden or abandoned.
     
  9. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm pretty sure that was what we were supposed to think. I do agree that the whole thing with the holographic child was kind of vague in terms of what stance they were taking on the whole abortion issue. It's a little ironic that we got a scene involving abortion issues a day before what happened today.
    Cool, I might have to get that.
    Oh yeah, that's probably it.
    I though the end made it pretty clear that she does care for her at least a little bit.
    This was the best episode of the season so far.
    Loved getting to explore the Krill a bit more, and see their homeworld.
    I was a little surprised that after everything that happened with her, that Teleya took such a hard stance against the Union.
    Anaya was a huge surprise, and I hope they don't just forget about her after this week. That was one thing Trek did a lot that always bugged me, the characters would experience some huge life changing event one week, but then by the next week it was like it never happened, and we saw sign of it ever again.
     
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  10. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Did anyone else question the existence of Ed and Teleya's child after seeing the weird anti abortion holokid scene? Like they just explained they had the technology to conviningly fake a child like that.
     
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  11. Bornin1980something

    Bornin1980something Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm not! I know you might not remember, but S1E6 'Krill', she met two new Krill who comforted her on the loss of her brother, killed by a Union ship. They then murdered her entire crew, arbitrarily sparing only her and the children, and revealed themselves to be Union infiltrators. In fact, it was their ship that killed her brother. I was amazed she had any further dealings with the Union at all!
     
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  12. Nerroth

    Nerroth Commodore Commodore

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    Her brother's ship was defeated in battle, which broke out while they were in the midst of bombarding a Union colony from orbit.

    To prevent them from using a weapon of mass destruction in order to kill over a hundred thousand Union citizens on a different colony world. (Something Teleya was totally fine with, since she was happy to teach her class that anyone not born of Krill is a soulless automaton.)

    Would it have been better for "Chris" and "Devon" to have found a way to merely incapacitate the crew? Or to target key areas (the bridge, engineering, and so forth) rather than a trigger a ship-wide attack? Or to put it this way: would they have found a way to do this before the weapon impacted the planet?

    In retrospect, it would have made more sense for that scene to have been aboard a captured Union vessel, being used by the Krill as a Trojan horse. For a species with such a deadly reaction to natural sunlight, it makes for a fatal lack of foresight by the engineers at the Krill fleet yards to design and build their ships with a ship-wide lighting system capable of being raised to such dangerous levels in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
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  13. HotRod

    HotRod Captain Captain

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    I liked this last episode alot more then the previous one. It didn't feel like a cheap rehash of a old Trek episode and even managed to have a little bit of the humour that I feel has been missing from the season, while still managing to be a pretty serious episode. My one real remaining complaint is in the episode length and the editing. The extra time that Hulu is allotting them is really being wasted in my opinion and does nothing but make the show kind of drag on. I honestly think limiting the show to the standard 42 minutes would do alot to improve the general pace of the episodes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I should think the scene at the end showing Teleya keeping tabs on her daughter should prove she's real.
     
  15. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That was also before her relationship with Ed.
     
  16. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Quoter of Quotes Premium Member

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    There are millions of reasons IRL why people have abortions, including people who consider themselves to have religious beliefs against it, so who knows? And the reason(s) aren't relevant to the zealots anyway.

    From my own POV, as someone raised Catholic, even though I knew I would have had one if necessary, it doesn't mean I wouldn't have felt any guilt. Conditioning since birth runs deep, even when you reject it.
     
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  17. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I feel like this episode is an interesting rebuttal to THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY in that it kind of shows how it would go if things hadn't been so committed.

    1. The Union unintentionally insult the Krill every time they open their mouths at the dinner scene. They talk about how capitalism was stupid and the Krill point out that they're still a capitalist society and doing fine. They also basically are their usual smug selves about their materialism which the Krill are trying to ignore. The Krill being their usual awful selves as well.

    2. Part of what the episode does is reveal the Krill are both a lot more nuanced than we're left thinking about them as well as also still possessing the qualities that made them effective baddies. They're a capitalist democratic society rather than the authoritarian theocracy we thought they were.

    3. The abortion hologram is meant to be a form of psychological torture and Mercer reacts to it as such. It's basically Seth talking about the "heartbeat test" designed to anthropomorphize a fetus and prevent abortion, though in this case it's just meant to inflict psychological guilt. If it doesn't work on an audience member because they don't think of fetuses as possessing any such qualities, it will just come off as silly. However, it's based on an RL thing.

    Mercer is disgusted by it as I presume Seth is by the RL version. Ironically, it also is designed to once more highlight the Krill are NOT stereotypes. They're not executing the parents, they're trying to guilt them.

    4. Part of what makes the episode good is we're continually assaulted with the casual arrogance of the Union regarding the situation. Whether this is just Seth commenting on the 2016 election or a larger point that people take for granted the progression of history is to, well, progressiveness, it is the same message.

    They dismiss the possibility the Krill will legitimately vote in Teleya because they don't WANT to believe that they're that unpopular with the people. They always act as if the Krill are uncivilized savages and if they're just "shown civilization" they'll change their attitudes on everything.

    5. I'm not really cool with the fact that the standing President was going to contest the election because, well, it implies that the "good" side is perfectly willing to throw democracy down the toilet when things get bad as well.
     
  18. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah, that was a bit of a curveball storywise. I think there's zero chance this storyline will get dropped, it'll probably play a big part later on to resolve the Krill/Union/Kaylon War and we know that Telaya has a soft spot for her and for Ed, too no matter how much she denies it. It could well be that she's not that extremist as she publicly claims to be but it was just an easy method to come to power ( works for us so why not for an alien race to that's xenophobic and fanatical religious already).

    This episode seemed more like a season finale for other shows, so i has very surprised to see the production values be so high. Usually this means that the next episodes cut back on big set pieces to get budget back on track so i'm curious what comes next. Season 3 will have ten episodes and were nearly halfway through - they might take it easy for 2-3 episodes but no more or they really have the budget to ramp it up every episode.

    I was about to call it quits for Orville because it lacked what initially drew me in with the first 2 seasons but now i think i'll stay for the story and characters, it's only an hour per week.
     
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  19. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

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    the big difference is that the Klingon could see the writing on the wall, with all the devastation the explosion of Praxis was already bringing, the kaylon are more like a theoretical threat to most krills, and one they now feel prepared to face alone anyway, thanks to their increased military strength.

    they could still ostracise them for life, though.

    I didn’t see such arrogance at all. What I noticed is how blind they could be, as what would happen if a new, hostile, chancellor was elected was obvious. And it promptly happened. Maybe wait until after the election?
    that is not correct: the chancellor said it was usual for the loser to challenge the election if the results were close and also that he was still supposed to be in power until t’leya was sworn in. As much as it may look superficially similar to what trump tried to do the situation was quite different, with the system working that way.
     
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  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He wasn't "throwing democracy down the toilet." The votes weren't completely tabulated yet, Teleya just had enough to be considered the winner, and according to the sitting Chancellor there was precedent for what he wanted to do in similar circumstances in the past. It's likely that if they had gone through the process (which I doubt would have taken much longer than an extra day or so) and Teleya were still determined to be the winner, he'd abide by the results.