Spoilers The Orville: New Horizons Season 3 Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by tomalak301, Jun 2, 2022.

  1. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Damn, I forgot the new episode came out today. I wonder if Hulu is releasing new episodes the same day Paramount + releases Strange New Worlds, or if that was purely a coincidence?
    Not that much, it's about the same as if it was on regular TV. I've never been bothered by commercials, so I'm happy to save the money. I like getting a short break to check threads here, or play a couple levels on whatever mobile game I'm playing, or other things.
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I've been watching and hearing commercials since I was 5. It barely registers for me, while most of my family don't like it.

    I still listen to radio, watch TV, and other commercial ladden items. Strangely, I'm still alive...;):whistle:
     
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  3. firehawk12

    firehawk12 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  4. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There is Ofcom in the Uk, but it usually for Karens to complain about Clarkson being rude about Caravaners. :)
     
  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    They probably brought in a local singer.
     
  6. Serveaux

    Serveaux Mediocre Old White Man Premium Member

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    "Rain" is easily the best episode of the year, so far.
     
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  7. Arpy

    Arpy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The latest episode (on the Krill homeworld) “Rain” was so good! This season has been so-so for me. I didn’t like the premiere as I thought it was a wasted episode trying to explain for the audience how Mr. Robot is still around, then a good second episode, an okay third…but this, this was a lot of fun. Some minor quibbles about the political reality of a head-of-state visiting on an uncertain election night, and about him being the first to be stabbed (he’s new to us, but he’d be the main event to them), but, eh, minor.

    Additionally, the episode was beautiful, with wonderful colors on Krill and great angles in some of the scenes between Mercer and the new Chancellor especially.

    Also nice was seeing the admirals, presidents, etc, having more to say and do — Mercer was important but not the main event, as it would be in reality. Trek has a bad habit of having the captain/series lead be way more important than their pay grade in-universe would suggest.

    But yeah great episode. The Krill First politics and hubris against the Kaylon…and the abortion punishment was fantastic! At first I thought they were going to forcibly re-breed the two of them together, keep the baby, then fry the parents. But to see the mind-fuck of a punishment…oh, and their beliefs on abortion influencing the Chancellor to both keep and indeed love the child...just some fascinating, great stuff.
     
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  8. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe you don't...
     
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  9. Skipper

    Skipper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm little at a loss about "the" scene. It's supposed to be anti-abortion? Pro-choice? And was the point storywise? She kept the girl because of her beliefs? Because she was afraid of the punishment? By the way, it was the typical sci-fi punishment which can work only on people who have already a guilty conscience. The others? "Yeah yeah I get it. It could have been a beautiful child blah blah blah are we done here?".
     
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  10. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the scene is meant to subvert the audience's expectations. Since Krill is a religious fundamentalist, we might expect that the parents would be put to death since that is the punishment most religious fundamentalist countries might impose. But Krill does not do that. Their punishment is to force the parents to interact with a hologram of what the child would have been like. In a way, the punishment is both pro-life and pro-choice. It accepts that the abortion happened. It does not materially punish the parents. But it also confronts the parents with the consequences of their choice by showing them what they lost. So the parents will know that their decision to have an abortion cost them this beautiful child. The punishment is to shame them.

    Story wise, Talayla talks to Mercer like the punishment is a real deterrent. We certainly see the parents in the room show real grief when they see the hologram of their child. Perhaps, on Krill, they have such a sacred religious view of life and the unborn that seeing the hologram of their unborn child it is a real deterrence to most. It is not just that they took a life but they sinned against their god, Avis. So the punishment would fill them with guilt and shame. I do think Talayla was deterred by the punishment.

    You are right that the punishment would not work on people with no sense of guilt. But remember that Krill is a very religious society. Krill would likely have a sense of wanting to please their god, Avis. So the punishment would likely work on Krill since they would have a sense of guilt about sinning against Avis.

    The punishment is also like a scifi version of some of the pro-life law in the US where pregnant women are shown the ultrasound image of their unborn child before they have an abortion. The idea is that if the mothers see proof that it is a real child inside them, it will deter them from having the abortion. Since this is a scifi show, Krill can do more than just show an ultrasound image, they can actually recreate a fully interactive hologram of the child. And instead of using it to deter parents from having the abortion, it is used to shame them after the fact as a form of punishment.
     
  11. Bornin1980something

    Bornin1980something Commander Red Shirt

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    I knew that would open a jar of pickled worms! As for Telaya, it may be a factor that, if she did go through the punishment, her cross-breeding would be revealed. This would have ruined her Krill purity campaign, if she was allowed to survive. We don't know what the punishment for Cross-breeding is!
    Also, don't underestimate the power of beliefs. To a Krill, belief in the Word Of Avis comes first. It is what they were taught from infancy. It is who they are. And it is the lens through which they see everything else. Everything they do is because of their beliefs. At least, that is their ideal. It is also a society kept in line by fear and guilt. All but hardened culture rebels would feel the guilt, especially in the context. We don't know what they are put through before they meet the 'child.'
     
  12. Skipper

    Skipper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    About that, only if they knew who the father was. For the "punishment" they needed the DNA of both parents. And by the way, all the thing works only they caught you. And if they are sure who the biological father is (assuming that their biology works like ours on this matter)
     
  13. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The hologram technology in itself is a bit iffy, of course in a IRL sense, as there is no way any AI could extrapolate the axtual appearance, let alone personality of a potential offspring even with a DNA sample.
    The hologram is essentially a scam.

    Assuming that such a technology could exist, there is no reason you couldn't push it further. Because that just means, that you could take DNA samples of the parents, combine them, extrapolate a potential offspring even before conception and guilt them into fucking like rabbits because of all the offspring they will never have if they don't get to it asap.
    And then you could force random couples together because any combination of parents not getting together becomes equal to trillions of offspring not happening because the parents are so blasphemous to not meet and start a family.
     
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  14. Skipper

    Skipper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And what if the mother doesn't know who is the father? They run hundreds of simulations just to be sure?
     
  15. Skipper

    Skipper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't know if the punishment really works as a deterrent because, well, people are still punished? And If their souls were truly dominated by fear of their God, why would they have done so in the first place? And if one coldly analyzes the pros and cons (because in theory deterrents work in this way), on the one hand probably a life ruined by raising an unwanted child, on the other, what, 5 uncomfortable minutes? Unless this particular thing is just part of an all inclusive package, so then they will be imprisoned or whatever, but it doesn't seem the case.
     
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  16. Bornin1980something

    Bornin1980something Commander Red Shirt

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    I assumed they used the DNA of the child. And if they couldn't do that, and couldn't find the father, they would still be able to prove that Telaya got pregnant outside of the Krill equivalent of wedlock. This would not help her Krill purity campaign, especially if traces of alien DNA were still detectable in her body.

    This actually reflects some of the tactics of the US pro-life movement, from misleading statistics and anecdotes to crisis pregnancy centres which might mislead women seeking abortion into entering them. They might justify such tactics by saying they are just trying to save the babies, seeing the whole thing as a war between good and evil. This is a lot like the way the Krill see the universe!

    Also, the episode should have carried a content warning!
     
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  17. Skipper

    Skipper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, it wasn't even really relevant to the plot. If it weren't for that scene, one wouldn't even have wondered why he wanted to keep the baby. It was her choice, was there a need to investigate the how and why?
     
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  18. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

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    not to mention I was not really sure what the message was. Was it anti-abortion? Pro-choice? Against choice?
     
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  19. Skipper

    Skipper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I'm really confused by that. In theory, Mercer should be the voice of reason in that scene, but he barely comments on what he just saw. And really, what's the point of it? What lesson should we draw from it as viewers?

    Imagine if in TNG a Klingon asks "Why didn't you kill your enemy when he was helpless?!?" and in response, instead of saying "Because it would have been a murder," we would take him for a ride to some rehabilitation center. What should he understand? "Oh, didn't you kill him because you were afraid of having to go to therapy?"
     
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  20. shapeshifter

    shapeshifter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To wake the viewer up to hear the ads. :angel:

    Actually S3 E4 wasn't boring like the first three were for me. Quite interesting, even Trek like.

    But yeah, I had the sound set at 65 for this episode to sound normal for me. I had to turn the new SNW down to 55 to be the same volume.
     
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