The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[GalaxyX]

So, why replace that one?

Some other users here guessed it is because the BoP footage could not be restored.

Maybe it is just a testbed to replace the 4 foot model (which I really hope will be replaced completely).

But they have done Inner Light, and the 4 Footer is there, in all its glory... cough...

Hah hah suckers.

 

[trekker670]

Overall, I like the new CG shot better: great attention to details from the original model/shot (as usual), the lighting looks great, you can even make out details in some of the windows! My only complaints are that the deflector and the area right around it has a few tells that it's CG (especially the lighting), and, as stated before, the lost details of the docking clamps (or whatever they're called). Oh and what's up with the squiggly warp star to the right of the stardrive section?

 

[Dick_Valentine]

For the sake of God... A plea to the producers:

Get rid of that horrible 4 foot model! This is the chance to fix a big continuity issue.

I know... the 4 foot model was created to allow more movement and more complex shots, but it lacks the more organic lines and character of the original model build by ILM. That one is unmatched.


I know that this is only a preview disc, and they work on the earlier season right now... Take that opportunity, use Tobias Richter's mesh and fix that issue!!!

Really?

Of all the slightly off looking Enterprises so far, this is easily my favourite shot yet:

Here's the 4-footer: http://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/5450_29_1080p.jpg

Maybe its because I came to the show when it was in its later series, but to me this is how the Big D should look...

Has anyone seen a shot of the phasers firing, btw?
Have they kept in the little charging pulse before it fires as that effect seemed intermittent over the course of the series
(depending on which FX team was handling that weeks episode IIRC, before Voyager dropped the idea completely in its later years...)

 

[GalaxyX]

I just hope they fixed the hand phaser shots so that they are instantaneous, like a light beam should be, instead of the ridiculous slow "piss" beams they had.

Enterprise had the best phaser FX. I'm hopeful TNG does the same or better.

 

[NewHorizon]

One thing I really don't like about the new CGI model is that it is much wider than the original 6 footer at the base of the neck. I could see that in the Enterprise vs BoP shot as well. The proportions are quite wrong. It would be nice if Tobias Richter, or whoever made the model, could fix that and have the shot re-rendered before the full season set comes out.

 

[Captrek]

I just hope they fixed the hand phaser shots so that they are instantaneous, like a light beam should be, instead of the ridiculous slow "piss" beams they had.

They’d have to do some significant re-editing. In Conspiracy, for example, Admiral Aaron fires his phaser, and Picard and Riker jump out of the way after he shoots but before the beam reaches them.

It’s okay, because Wink of an Eye had already established that phaser beams travel very, very slowly compared to sound.

 

[davejames]

I just hope they fixed the hand phaser shots so that they are instantaneous, like a light beam should be, instead of the ridiculous slow "piss" beams they had.

Enterprise had the best phaser FX. I'm hopeful TNG does the same or better.

Well there are too many shots of characters in TNG ducking out of the way to make the beam TOO instantaneous (most notably at the end of Conspiracy).

But I do hope they thin the beams down a bit (although not as much as on ENT, which were a little too pencil-thin for my taste).

edit: Oops, someone beat me to it.

 

[GalaxyX]

I just hope they fixed the hand phaser shots so that they are instantaneous, like a light beam should be, instead of the ridiculous slow "piss" beams they had.

They’d have to do some significant re-editing. In Conspiracy, for example, Admiral Aaron fires his phaser, and Picard and Riker jump out of the way after he shoots but before the beam reaches them.

It’s okay, because Wink of an Eye had already established that phaser beams travel very, very slowly compared to sound.

With a bit of editing, you could show Picard and Riker jumping out of the way before the Admiral fires.

Realistically? I fear you are right, they will probably stick to the "slow as a paintball" phaser beam

 

[Sho]

With a bit of editing, you could show Picard and Riker jumping out of the way before the Admiral fires.

Oh come on George, now we know it's you.

 

[GalaxyX]

With a bit of editing, you could show Picard and Riker jumping out of the way before the Admiral fires.

Oh come on George, now we know it's you.

While your comment made me burst out loud laughing, I guess I'm in the minority when I say that the original Star Wars trilogy came out great despite George's "vision", and that the new re-enhanced versions are actually closer to his original vision, despite not being to other people's standards. AND I think what the trilogy gained from the reimagining far outweight the little bit lost in certain parts, like Han shooting first.

I proudly have the Blue-Ray set and watch it regularly (I did loathe the added Jabba scenes in "A New Hope", and the "Noooooooo!!!!" from Darth Vader in ROTJ, but I'll take them if I get to see more Millenium Falcon and more Cloud City)

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I just hope they fixed the hand phaser shots so that they are instantaneous, like a light beam should be, instead of the ridiculous slow "piss" beams they had.

They’d have to do some significant re-editing. In Conspiracy, for example, Admiral Aaron fires his phaser, and Picard and Riker jump out of the way after he shoots but before the beam reaches them.

It’s okay, because Wink of an Eye had already established that phaser beams travel very, very slowly compared to sound.

With a bit of editing, you could show Picard and Riker jumping out of the way before the Admiral fires.

Realistically? I fear you are right, they will probably stick to the "slow as a paintball" phaser beam

Why stop there? There shouldn't even be a visible beam. Let's edit them all out.

 

[sojourner]

One thing I really don't like about the new CGI model is that it is much wider than the original 6 footer at the base of the neck. I could see that in the Enterprise vs BoP shot as well. The proportions are quite wrong. It would be nice if Tobias Richter, or whoever made the model, could fix that and have the shot re-rendered before the full season set comes out.

Bullshit.
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/...USS-Enterprise&p=534368&viewfull=1#post534368

 

[JJohnson]

Here's a direct comparison of the saucer separation shot for those interested:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/104715

Interesting...the torpedo tube looks differently shaped also. Differently lit windows and as mentioned before, one vs. two windows just above the docking port. If it's a CGI model, it looks very well done to me. It looks like there's real depth to the model - lifeboats, transporter emitters, the ring around the captain's yacht.

Some other shots of the model...if those damage spots are visible on screen, then I'm going to have to opt for CG replacement when possible.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Here's a direct comparison of the saucer separation shot for those interested:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/104715

I like the new shot. Very faithful to the original. So far, the CGI we've has impressed me, whereas TOS's new CGI looks to me like scenes from Star Trek video game.

Hah hah suckers.

???

I just hope they fixed the hand phaser shots so that they are instantaneous, like a light beam should be, instead of the ridiculous slow "piss" beams they had.

Even funnier was when they'd stop firing, and the light beam would travel backwards back into the hand phaser emitter.

 

[trekker670]

From the Sci-Fi Meshes Forum:

The whole saucer and secondary hull is one big fat subd polygon mesh at the moment.

Saucer seperation line is done (I have not modelled the inside - battle bridge and such - I´ll do that when I´ll need it)

I believe Tobias previously stated he hadn't built the seperation componants and wouldn't until he needed them

Another reason not to assume the CG model is Richter's until we get confirmation from Tobias Richter and/or the production team.


That said, however, looking at some of his renders, the similarities are striking. The shape of the torpedo bay, the window details, etc. There are also many differences, though. I'd be interested in hearing confirmation either way.

 

[mswood]

This one looks CGI too. http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/exclusive_images/Farpoint/Farpoint10e.jpg

I wonder if they were unhappy with the motion control of the two separate pieces and felt they needed to redo it in CGI to produce a smoother shot. What's also interesting is that it's the first indication that the CGI model can separate.

Nah, I reckon (99% sure) that is a shot of the model.

It is unfortunate we have lost another 6ft-er shot to CGI, because no CGI can look as good as the 6ft model when photographed correctly! I must assume the shot was lost when they raided the archives for Generations because the rest of the scenes appear to be the model.

Frankly I think teh CGI on that one looks superior. While I love models, and generally prefer them, especially when they take the time to create great models, take the time to layout the shots, and the time to expertly light them. But this was a TV pilot meaning models done for films are going to be generally done for better, and certainly expert CGI work can surpass what was done for tv.

Of course I am not saying this is expert CGI, but clearly the model work done at the time (and in the time frame) by the lower tier group of ILM isn't the best model work that could have been done. Let alone when the actual week to week filming starts up, and certainly before they expand their filming personal, to even try and keep up with the weekly grind.

For example I hated watching Generations with the reused footage because in relation to the other model work with the 6 footer it didn't hold up. And thats with budget use of ILM, as Trek rarely gets ILM's A team to work with.

 

[Tosk]

A quick guide to telling them apart ...

The physical model (6ft, but true for the 4-footer as well) has a double window in the upper left here:

Single on the CG model:

Nice!

Other 'quick ID' methods you can also use are: the secondary shuttlebays (light bleed = model) the saucer impulse engines (lit = CG) or the windows near the back of the neck. (The model has them right up to and across the corner, on the CG one the windows stop well before. See below.)

 

[sojourner]

I think it's also pretty telling that Tobias is also working on Excelsior, Stargazer, and Reliant meshes. All started in the last 6 months.

 

[NewHorizon]

Bullshit.
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/...USS-Enterprise&p=534368&viewfull=1#post534368

I don't think so.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.ne...5212520788_644095787_22834546_805149364_n.jpg

It's a great model, but if those ortho views are supposed to demonstrate how accurate it is, then it's not as accurate as it should be...especially with photos of the 6 foot model posted in the early pages of that forum thread.

Anyway, all I was saying is that the neck is thicker than the 6 footer in the original shot, and it is.

I have overlaid the original 6 footer in the link I posted.

The 6 footer is tinted red, the orthos of Tobias's ship are tinted green. In the side view, do you see how much further the back of the neck sticks out?

I'm really hoping those orthos are not accurate because the saucer is way off if they are.

That's not a slam against Tobias. The D is a tough ship to model.

CBS should have tracked down the buyer and paid him to let them make 3D scans of the bloody thing.

 

[trekker670]

CBS should have tracked down the buyer and paid him to let them make 3D scans of the bloody thing.

IIRC, they scanned them all before they sold them. I though I heard/read that somewhere.