The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[AviTrek]

PAL regions run at 50Hz electricity, 50 fields per second which equates to 25 fps on PAL TVs. Rather than the maths that makes 24 go into 30, it's far more convenient to just display the extra frame every second. Of course some people do use all sorts of magic, 2:3 pulldown and whatnot to make 24 go into 25, but that results in blended frames, judder, and ghosting, but maintains the original runtime and the correct audio pitch, whereas native 25 fps is smooth, but runs 4% faster than NTSC, and the audio is 4% higher in pitch.

Actually, 2:3 pull down is a technique for converting 24fps to 30fps. I don't think there is a similar process for converting to 25fps.

Isn't all of that no problem anymore since blurays are natively 24 fps?

Correct, which is why the PAL audience will see the correct speed for the first time with this process.

 

[Warp Coil]

PAL regions run at 50Hz electricity, 50 fields per second which equates to 25 fps on PAL TVs. Rather than the maths that makes 24 go into 30, it's far more convenient to just display the extra frame every second. Of course some people do use all sorts of magic, 2:3 pulldown and whatnot to make 24 go into 25, but that results in blended frames, judder, and ghosting, but maintains the original runtime and the correct audio pitch, whereas native 25 fps is smooth, but runs 4% faster than NTSC, and the audio is 4% higher in pitch.

Actually, 2:3 pull down is a technique for converting 24fps to 30fps. I don't think there is a similar process for converting to 25fps.

Isn't all of that no problem anymore since blurays are natively 24 fps?

If the plan is to air TNG-R in syndication, they'll need 30 fps for Broadcast in the U.S. The networks I work for air everything 1080i 59.94.

 

[Captrek]

Actually, 2:3 pull down is a technique for converting 24fps to 30fps. I don't think there is a similar process for converting to 25fps.

Isn't all of that no problem anymore since blurays are natively 24 fps?

If the plan is to air TNG-R in syndication, they'll need 30 fps for Broadcast in the U.S. The networks I work for air everything 1080i 59.94.

BluRays support both 24fps (1080p/24) and 60fps (1080p). TNG was made for TV, so my guess is that it was filmed at 30fps and the BluRays will be 1080p. 1080p/24 is generally used for movies.

 

[JJohnson]

That would be why my copy of Voyager makes Chakotay sound a much higher pitch than I remember...I got PAL versions. No wonder. I can't wait for Blu-Rays so I can hear them at the correct speed and pitch.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

PAL regions run at 50Hz electricity, 50 fields per second which equates to 25 fps on PAL TVs. Rather than the maths that makes 24 go into 30, it's far more convenient to just display the extra frame every second. Of course some people do use all sorts of magic, 2:3 pulldown and whatnot to make 24 go into 25, but that results in blended frames, judder, and ghosting, but maintains the original runtime and the correct audio pitch, whereas native 25 fps is smooth, but runs 4% faster than NTSC, and the audio is 4% higher in pitch.

Actually, 2:3 pull down is a technique for converting 24fps to 30fps. I don't think there is a similar process for converting to 25fps.

That's the danger of knowing a little and not enough to start spouting jargon.

There definitely is something used to standards convert NTSC-PAL without speedup. I've watched far too much anime released in the UK and have experienced the blended frames, judder and ghosting that results from forcing 24 frames (or 30) into 25.

Usually they average out the frames, so that you get some blending (it looks like one frame overlapping the next), and it's pretty smooth, if at the lower resolution of NTSC 480i scaled up to 576i it's still soft.

The cheapest conversion, and the one I hate the most, is where they simply repeat the 24th frame to create the 25th. The runtime is maintained, the audio untouched, but the video looks like jerkovision, with pans and scrolls jumping once a second.

Here's a wiki on it

I go cross-eyed halfway down the page...

 

[Maxwell Everett]

TNG was made for TV, so my guess is that it was filmed at 30fps and the BluRays will be 1080p. 1080p/24 is generally used for movies.

TNG was shot 24fps for the live action portions. 40 seconds into the promo, it tells us to expect 1080p/24 (or technically, 23.976)

 

[Maxwell Everett]

Just noticed this on the Amazon page for the Next Level disc:

Special Features
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Next Level Promo
- Star Trek Padd - iPad App Promo spot
- Star Trek - The Next Generation teaser promo

Next Level Promo (the one we're all familiar with):
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DZEcKM33YY[/yt]

iPad App Promo spot (also already available):
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHp3uuTchZI[/yt]


So, it looks like all we're going to get that's new in the way of special features is probably a Season 1 promo of unknown length -- there doesn't seem to be a VFX featurette (on this disc anyway.)

 

[gaghyogi49]

According to the listing of the Blu-ray on the official German Paramount page, the sample disk will indeed include a promo trailer for TNG Season 1:

http://www.paramount.de/Programm/1875/

 

[Dick_Valentine]

There was one for Voyager that went around.

Yeah it was an anniversary special that had "Ultimately human" a combination of DS9/Voyager bloopers that IIRC never turned up anywhere but Youtube afterwards.

Though bizarrely every time I've seen it since I've only seen the Voyager bloopers with the DS9 ones edited out of it, so either it did make it to a Voyager DVD release or a rabid Voyager fan couldn't take it that the DS9 bloopers were funnier and got rid of them!

(And they were, IIRC, Sisko telling Q that he'd ravish him and tripping up over his raised office door ledge with Riker vs Janeway saying " contact Star Trek" instead of Starfleet or something)

According to the listing of the Blu-ray on the official German Paramount page, the sample disk will indeed include a promo trailer for TNG Season 1:

http://www.paramount.de/Programm/1875/

Then I'll reiterate what I've said since we found out they weren't remaking the SFX, this is a job done on the cheap to make some money.
Its not a fan-friendly experience, they had the opportunity to go through all the footage, cut out scenes, bloopers etc and give the fans many extras, but they just want to do the bare minimum they can to maximise their profits.

Get with the program folks, this is just a money making scheme, not some fan experience chock a block with unseen nuggets.

That might come in 10 more years if they figure they can make some more money off of us...

 

[Harvey]

Of course they're out to make money. But painstaking work to re-composite each visual effects and (only when the original doesn't hold muster) re-creating the effects in HD is hardly a cash grab or "the bare minimum."

 

[Rarewolf]

I think it's just the fact that finding the 'nuggets' would largely be an inexpensive side effect of doing the required work, certainly cheaper to index it all then, than go back again later. Accessing the vaults should be a one time process.

 

[Harvey]

And who says that stuff won't be on the season sets? This 4-episode release is just a preview to generate some buzz (and some money) before a whole season is ready for release.

 

[sojourner]

Then I'll reiterate what I've said since we found out they weren't remaking the SFX, this is a job done on the cheap to make some money.

This really illustrates a lack of understanding in what is being done for the blueray edition.

 

[ATimson]

I think it's just the fact that finding the 'nuggets' would largely be an inexpensive side effect of doing the required work, certainly cheaper to index it all then, than go back again later. Accessing the vaults should be a one time process.

There's finding it... and then there's paying lawyers (and participants) for clearance.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

Then I'll reiterate what I've said since we found out they weren't remaking the SFX, this is a job done on the cheap to make some money.

This really illustrates a lack of understanding in what is being done for the blueray edition.

And that completes your RDA of patronising for today, nice to hit your targets, isn't it?

I do know what is going on, but compared to the rescanning and re-compositing that they're doing, fishing us out a few deleted scenes and a few bloopers isn't going to be a huge undertaking but doesn't seem to be part of their modus operandi.

Giving us a few extra trinkets might tempt those like me who aren't exactly tempted by 1980s filming looking better through HD ....

 

[Tosk]

I do know what is going on, but compared to the rescanning and re-compositing that they're doing, fishing us out a few deleted scenes and a few bloopers isn't going to be a huge undertaking but doesn't seem to be part of their modus operandi.

This should go without saying, but you're basing this off of a SAMPLER disc that isn't even out yet.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Plus, they're gonna have their hands full just digging up the stuff they're actually looking for and re-editing all the episodes. Putting together a blooper reel is not gonna be on anybody's priority list (and that's assuming they even kept the outtakes; like I said, Berman was against gag reels, especially at the time).

 

[trekfan_1]

Then I'll reiterate what I've said since we found out they weren't remaking the SFX, this is a job done on the cheap to make some money.

This really illustrates a lack of understanding in what is being done for the blueray edition.

And that completes your RDA of patronising for today, nice to hit your targets, isn't it?

I do know what is going on, but compared to the rescanning and re-compositing that they're doing, fishing us out a few deleted scenes and a few bloopers isn't going to be a huge undertaking but doesn't seem to be part of their modus operandi.

Giving us a few extra trinkets might tempt those like me who aren't exactly tempted by 1980s filming looking better through HD ....

Do you have a predisposition for being negative/jumping the gun?

Fact#1: Recompositing and redoing post production is an enormous task and pretty much unprecedented. Not "done on the cheap”. Ever time I see someone make that kind of comment I cant help to laugh. Search online and you will find almost no one seeing the studio ever doing this. Most were saying " Paramount will be cheap and do a video up convert." We should be grateful they are even going through all the trouble of re-editing a 20 year old show. All 176 episodes of it. That's the equivalent of re-editing over 80 feature films. How can that be considered "cheap"? Now if they simply were up converting the video masters than I would whole heartedly agree with you on the cheap part.

Fact #2: THIS IS A SAMPLER DISC! Expecting allot of special features on a test disc is like expecting a 3 course meal out of an appetizer. Please be patient. I'm sure the season sets will have meatier bonus material.

And about the SFX. Honestly, after what George Lucas did to Star Wars, I think staying true to the originals is the way to go for better or for worse. Especially since the workmanship and design work done for the models were handled with so much care and attention. HD will help us see allot the detail that was lost. For me, squeeky clean CGI has no "soul" to it. It's just too cookie cutter for my likeing. This ofcourse is just my opinion.

 

[Trek Survivor]

And about the SFX. Honestly, after what George Lucas did to Star Wars, I think staying true to the originals is the way to go for better or for worse. Especially since the workmanship and design work done for the models were handled with so much care and attention. HD will help us see allot the detail that was lost. For me, squeeky clean CGI has no "soul" to it. It's just too cookie cutter for my likeing. This ofcourse is just my opinion.

...Which I 100% completely agree with!

 

[Dick_Valentine]

This really illustrates a lack of understanding in what is being done for the blueray edition.

And that completes your RDA of patronising for today, nice to hit your targets, isn't it?

I do know what is going on, but compared to the rescanning and re-compositing that they're doing, fishing us out a few deleted scenes and a few bloopers isn't going to be a huge undertaking but doesn't seem to be part of their modus operandi.

Giving us a few extra trinkets might tempt those like me who aren't exactly tempted by 1980s filming looking better through HD ....

Do you have a predisposition for being negative/jumping the gun?

Fact#1: Recompositing and redoing post production is an enormous task and pretty much unprecedented. Not "done on the cheap”. Ever time I see someone make that kind of comment I cant help to laugh. Search online and you will find almost no one seeing the studio ever doing this. Most were saying " Paramount will be cheap and do a video up convert." We should be grateful they are even going through all the trouble of re-editing a 20 year old show. All 176 episodes of it. That's the equivalent of re-editing over 80 feature films. How can that be considered "cheap"? Now if they simply were up converting the video masters than I would whole heartedly agree with you on the cheap part.

Fact #2: THIS IS A SAMPLER DISC! Expecting allot of special features on a test disc is like expecting a 3 course meal out of an appetizer. Please be patient. I'm sure the season sets will have meatier bonus material.

And about the SFX. Honestly, after what George Lucas did to Star Wars, I think staying true to the originals is the way to go for better or for worse. Especially since the workmanship and design work done for the models were handled with so much care and attention. HD will help us see allot the detail that was lost. For me, squeeky clean CGI has no "soul" to it. It's just too cookie cutter for my likeing. This ofcourse is just my opinion.

I'll admit I was in a bad mood last night by the previous poster's rudeness and I flew off the handle a bit, I apologise for that.

It is just from my point of view, TNG is a closed shop.
I've seen it all 1000000 times and I don't fancy shelling out to see it another time even if it does look a lot sprucier this time.
Q will still get petulant and throw the ship to meet the Borg, the "mysterious shadow" will still be Sela, Spock will still talk about cowboy diplomacy, etc.

Yet I still love the show and for some reason badly want to justify putting my hand in my pocket (to buy a blu-ray player/PS3 as well as the DVDs themselves, not the stuff of whims!) and getting this and just, for whatever stupid reason, to see something "new" for my money.
Whether that be special effects or previously unseen material of any kind (and I admit now I jumped the gun on that after getting confused about what was being discussed, box set details or sampler, apologies!)

So all that fanboy desire for something new coupled with my cheapness not wanting to buy something I've already seen albiet much better looking came across as negativity, I apologise.

I have waffled on long enough and shall now return to browsing the thread hoping for better news with each sucessive update!