The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[Xavier_Storma]

Not that they didn't have some shots I did really like. Most of the shots that I liked where Planet orbiting shots.

But much, of the ships done for TOS Remaster had very little surface texture and with them already freely admitting that they had to cut corners on the Enterprise to render it on a time frame they had to meet, clearly shows that the fx producers weren't able to the quality they wanted.

Well to me just because I can recognize that something is CG (and they haven't made it look 100% like a physical model) doesn't automatically make it bad. I had no problem accepting Gollum or Neytiri as real characters despite their obvious CG-ness, so accepting these CG ships as being real isn't a big deal for me either.

Whether the Enterprise looks like a CG effect or a 13 foot long wooden model (as it did in the original version), there's still a level of disbelief that has to be maintained. And for the most part I thought the CG in TOS-R was more than good enough.

Honestly the only problem I had with the Enterprise was the color of gray they used. I always preferred the lighter, greenish-gray color of the original model myself.

It's not that CG per se is bad. It's the execution. Look at those D7 ships. They are very low detail models. You can see it on the edges, which should be round.
The engines are textured (!!!) and not even modelled! I know game meshes which look better than those, and that's the point... they have a multimillion dollar project, and that's the best they can come up with?
Look at the D7 firing shot. There is not even a shadow from the neck on the secondary hull!

Don't understand this as arrogance, but I can make it better with my self-tought knowledge how to handle CG programs... And I do not make it for living, just for fun and as a challange!

 

[NewHorizon]

Well to me just because I can recognize that something is CG (and they haven't made it look 100% like a physical model) doesn't automatically make it bad. I had no problem accepting Gollum or Neytiri as real characters despite their obvious CG-ness, so accepting these CG ships as being real isn't a big deal for me either.

Gollum and Neytiri were 'creatures' and don't exist in the physical world. The model of the Enterprise and the Klingon D7 did physically exist, although clearly not in space.

Whether the Enterprise looks like a CG effect or a 13 foot long wooden model (as it did in the original version), there's still a level of disbelief that has to be maintained. And for the most part I thought the CG in TOS-R was more than good enough.

Sadly, it was far too often not good enough for my liking. A lot of that had to do with the inconsistent quality from episode to episode. From what I remember reading, they had an 'A' team and a 'B' team. What TOS-R really needed was a bit longer lead time...like a few more months to perfect their look.

Honestly the only problem I had with the Enterprise was the color of gray they used. I always preferred the lighter, greenish-gray color of the original model myself.

I believe Darren Dochterman gave them some tips on how to replicate the look and lighting from the original series...whether they used it or not is another questions.

 

[mswood]

Not that they didn't have some shots I did really like. Most of the shots that I liked where Planet orbiting shots.

But much, of the ships done for TOS Remaster had very little surface texture and with them already freely admitting that they had to cut corners on the Enterprise to render it on a time frame they had to meet, clearly shows that the fx producers weren't able to the quality they wanted.

Well to me just because I can recognize that something is CG (and they haven't made it look 100% like a physical model) doesn't automatically make it bad. I had no problem accepting Gollum or Neytiri as real characters despite their obvious CG-ness, so accepting these CG ships as being real isn't a big deal for me either.

Whether the Enterprise looks like a CG effect or a 13 foot long wooden model (as it did in the original version), there's still a level of disbelief that has to be maintained. And for the most part I thought the CG in TOS-R was more than good enough.

Honestly the only problem I had with the Enterprise was the color of gray they used. I always preferred the lighter, greenish-gray color of the original model myself.

I wasn't trying to make it sound like they need to create photo realistic CGI. As even the motion control model work done on the films and tv shows aren't realistic for what they are representing.

But the FX work done by CBS digital looked (space ship scenes) worse then almost all the CGI ship shots done on Voyager, DS9, and ENT. And some of those were done over a decade ago. They weren't even close to what tv CGI fx work can do today, not even close.

I wasn't pushing for elaborate new effects, but I did want to see CGI that equalled material done within the last 5 years or so for TV. I think it looked in general worse then Trek tv CGI that was done in 1995. That's pretty sad.

And again that wasn't what the FX department of CBS digital was hoping to do, its what they had to settle for, after they discovered they didn't have the time or the processing power to handle the mesh they originally created.

 

[tomswift2002]

The CGI in TOS-R looked a lot better than Enterprise. Enterprise's CGI just looked atrocious through all 4 seasons, especially in "These Are The Voyages...". The only CGI that looks better than TOS-R's (aside from the 2009 film) are the CGI shots from FC and the later seasons of DS9 where the CGI ships were being mixed into shots with filming models like the DS9 station.

 

[BillJ]

The CGI in TOS-R looked a lot better than Enterprise. Enterprise's CGI just looked atrocious through all 4 seasons, especially in "These Are The Voyages...". The only CGI that looks better than TOS-R's (aside from the 2009 film) are the CGI shots from FC and the later seasons of DS9 where the CGI ships were being mixed into shots with filming models like the DS9 station.

I'm not an Enterprise fan, but the effects work by Eden FX blew the TOS-R work done by CBS Digital out of the water.

 

[tomswift2002]

The CGI in TOS-R looked a lot better than Enterprise. Enterprise's CGI just looked atrocious through all 4 seasons, especially in "These Are The Voyages...". The only CGI that looks better than TOS-R's (aside from the 2009 film) are the CGI shots from FC and the later seasons of DS9 where the CGI ships were being mixed into shots with filming models like the DS9 station.

I'm not an Enterprise fan, but the effects work by Eden FX blew the TOS-R work done by CBS Digital out of the water.

No they didn't. Even when Enterprise was first airing the CGI never gave me that "Wow!" factor that TOS-R did. Enterprise's CGI was absolute garbage and belonged in the garbage.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Even when Enterprise was first airing the CGI never gave me that "Wow!" factor that TOS-R did. Enterprise's CGI was absolute garbage and belonged in the garbage.

I would have forgiven poor CGI had the stories and writing on Enterprise been up to scratch - for me, at least, that's the bottom line.

 

[NewHorizon]

No they didn't.

Yeah, sorry man, but Enterprise CGI was better than TOSR...I honestly don't know how you could 'see' otherwise. It looked consistent and professional. TOSR looked amateur in comparison.

 

[Tom Servo]

The CGI in TOS-R looked a lot better than Enterprise. Enterprise's CGI just looked atrocious through all 4 seasons, especially in "These Are The Voyages...". The only CGI that looks better than TOS-R's (aside from the 2009 film) are the CGI shots from FC and the later seasons of DS9 where the CGI ships were being mixed into shots with filming models like the DS9 station.

Seriously? ENTs CG was pretty damn good for the time and budget, atleast until the started slashing the budget in season 4, and even then it was a LOT better then the stuff we got for TOS remastered.

I get what they were trying to do for TOS remastered, I just feel that they weren't able to execute the way that wanted to for many episodes.

 

[BillJ]

No they didn't. Even when Enterprise was first airing the CGI never gave me that "Wow!" factor that TOS-R did. Enterprise's CGI was absolute garbage and belonged in the garbage.

Not sure how you think this...

Is better than this...

 

[Start Wreck]

Enterprise had fantastic CGI for a TV production.

 

[Dac]

The CGI in TOS-R looked a lot better than Enterprise. Enterprise's CGI just looked atrocious through all 4 seasons, especially in "These Are The Voyages...". The only CGI that looks better than TOS-R's (aside from the 2009 film) are the CGI shots from FC and the later seasons of DS9 where the CGI ships were being mixed into shots with filming models like the DS9 station.

I'm not an Enterprise fan, but the effects work by Eden FX blew the TOS-R work done by CBS Digital out of the water.

No they didn't. Even when Enterprise was first airing the CGI never gave me that "Wow!" factor that TOS-R did. Enterprise's CGI was absolute garbage and belonged in the garbage.

Um, yeah. That's crazy talk. I've never had an issue with CG is any Star Trek production.

 

[BillJ]

Just taking a look at Trekcore...

The Eden FX Defiant from In a Mirror, Darkly looks a hell of a lot better than the Enterprise from TOS-R.

 

[Start Wreck]

Just taking a look at Trekcore...

The Eden FX Defiant from In a Mirror, Darkly looks a hell of a lot better than the Enterprise from TOS-R.

I don't mind either, to be honest.

EdenFX:
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x22/thesearethevoyages370.jpg

CBS-D:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x06hd/thedoomsdaymachinehd0702.jpg

 

[JarodRussell]

Just taking a look at Trekcore...

The Eden FX Defiant from In a Mirror, Darkly looks a hell of a lot better than the Enterprise from TOS-R.

I don't mind either, to be honest.

EdenFX:
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x22/thesearethevoyages370.jpg

CBS-D:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x06hd/thedoomsdaymachinehd0702.jpg

They both look like shit in my opinion.

 

[Sho]

Enterprise had some pretty stunning CG at times. The eppy with the derelict Vulcan ship in the asteroid field was jawdropping.

 

[BillJ]

Just taking a look at Trekcore...

The Eden FX Defiant from In a Mirror, Darkly looks a hell of a lot better than the Enterprise from TOS-R.

I don't mind either, to be honest.

EdenFX:
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x22/thesearethevoyages370.jpg

CBS-D:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x06hd/thedoomsdaymachinehd0702.jpg

Can't link to images at TrekCore. Plus you have to remember the Enterprise image comes from a 480i source while the TOS-R image from a 1080p source.

 

[JarodRussell]

Just taking a look at Trekcore...

The Eden FX Defiant from In a Mirror, Darkly looks a hell of a lot better than the Enterprise from TOS-R.

I don't mind either, to be honest.

EdenFX:
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x22/thesearethevoyages370.jpg

CBS-D:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x06hd/thedoomsdaymachinehd0702.jpg

They both look like shit in my opinion.

Especially compared to this:
http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x06/trialstribbleations122.jpg

Real model work for the win.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

Enterprise had fantastic CGI for a TV production.

Word! Some shots were stunning. Especially the Xindi saga had awesome SFX shots at times.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Enterprise had fantastic CGI for a TV production.

Word! Some shots were stunning. Especially the Xindi saga had awesome SFX shots at times.

Yes.
here's why I feel so about 'Azati Prime' #318