The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[AdmiralScreed]

I'm really curious to see Skin of Evil in HD. There's a part of me that thinks the episode will actually worse than in SD because the costume used for Armus was so cheaply constructed. SD at least manages to cover some of that up so that it doesn't look so bad, but in HD we'll get to see it for what it really is......(fingers crossed that it doesn't look terrible).

 

[davejames]

I've never understood the ridicule that Skin of Evil has gotten over the years. I always thought Armus was a really effective villain, and loved how dark and twisted and bitter he was. Yeah he's a bit one-dimensionally evil, and basically comes across as little more than a schoolyard bully, but it was still fun seeing the crew have to go up against something like that.

And the oil slick design I thought worked perfectly well too. The only thing that really looked fake about the whole thing was the CG pool of oil that moved around, but I imagine that is being redone for the blu-ray anyway.

 

[Trekker4747]

Given the time I doubt it was a CG effect used for Armus to move. The episode itself is okay but Armus makes for a hard threat to believe he posed a challenge to the Enterprise. The worst looking "effect" for me was the welt/bruise on Tasha's cheek.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

I've never understood the ridicule that Skin of Evil has gotten over the years. I always thought Armus was a really effective villain, and loved how dark and twisted and bitter he was. Yeah he's a bit one-dimensionally evil, and basically comes across as little more than a schoolyard bully, but it was still fun seeing the crew have to go up against something like that.

And the oil slick design I thought worked perfectly well too. The only thing that really looked fake about the whole thing was the CG pool of oil that moved around, but I imagine that is being redone for the blu-ray anyway.

I was just criticizing the visual effects, not the episode as a whole. But with that said, I do think that Skin of Evil is a very flawed, but still somewhat enjoyable episode. Far too much time is spent listening to Armus babble on about how evil he is, and Picard's decision to beam down to the surface to negotiate with him was totally unrealistic. Still, Yar's death was perfect, and her memorial service at the very end was extremely moving. Overall, it's kind of a mixed bag for me.

 

[BillJ]

They look way better than the original FX. They werent designed to be "modern" FX.

Do we really have to pull out the pictures again that showed how badly segmented and video game like the TOS-R D-7 was? They looked like shit compared to the TOS model work and would look like shit when presented against the TMP model work re-used in TNG.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

Hold on a minute......you're telling me that THOSE cruddy effects were actually put onto a Star Trek blu ray set? Are you sure that isn't from a 90's video game?

 

[BillJ]

Hold on a minute......you're telling me that THOSE cruddy effects were actually put onto a Star Trek blu ray set? Are you sure that isn't from a 90's video game?

That was some of the effects work done by CBS Digital.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

Hold on a minute......you're telling me that THOSE cruddy effects were actually put onto a Star Trek blu ray set? Are you sure that isn't from a 90's video game?

That was some of the effects work done by CBS Digital.

Glad they got their act together for TNG, where it really counts.

 

[BillJ]

Hold on a minute......you're telling me that THOSE cruddy effects were actually put onto a Star Trek blu ray set? Are you sure that isn't from a 90's video game?

That was some of the effects work done by CBS Digital.

Glad they got their act together for TNG, where it really counts.

I wouldn't be so sure...

Doing a sampler is one thing. We're probably going to see corners cut once episodes are being churned out at a regular rate with a regular deadline.

Though TNG has the advantage of having most of the ship model shots to recomposite vs. having to redo every single effect from scratch in CGI. I always wished TOS-R had the original effects elements to work from vs. the CGI rubbish we ended up with.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

That was some of the effects work done by CBS Digital.

Glad they got their act together for TNG, where it really counts.

I wouldn't be so sure...

Doing a sampler is one thing. We're probably going to see corners cut once episodes are being churned out at a regular rate with a regular deadline.

Though TNG has the advantage of having most of the ship model shots to recomposite vs. having to redo every single effect from scratch in CGI. I always wished TOS-R had the original effects elements to work from vs. the CGI rubbish we ended up with.

I just hope they take their time and try to do the best work possible. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would rather wait a few years and get something absolutely stunning than get it right away and be underwhelmed. As far as I'm concerned this will be the definitive TNG set for the next decade, or perhaps even longer, so I really hope they get it all right.

PS I'll confess I haven't bought the sampler yet. I'm not sure if I will because I don't really feel like double dipping. But from all of the screen shots and videos I've seen I'm pretty damn impressed. Here's hoping the rest of the show turns out as well as the sampler.

 

[davejames]

Yeah that middle shot is pretty atrocious, but the other ones I can live with. The original D-7 model was pretty flat and plain as well.

 

[BillJ]

Yeah that middle shot is pretty atrocious, but the other ones I can live with. The original D-7 model was pretty flat and plain as well.

If you actually look at the model, there are alot of complex curves to the D-7. Since the original film elements no longer exist we'll never know how good the model work from TOS would've looked in 1080p.

 

[mswood]

Yeah that middle shot is pretty atrocious, but the other ones I can live with. The original D-7 model was pretty flat and plain as well.

I hate all of those shots. Not the layout of them, but either the render of them or the original mesh of them. Very possible both.

Not that they didn't have some shots I did really like. Most of the shots that I liked where Planet orbiting shots.

But much, of the ships done for TOS Remaster had very little surface texture and with them already freely admitting that they had to cut corners on the Enterprise to render it on a time frame they had to meet, clearly shows that the fx producers weren't able to the quality they wanted.

Really one of the few CGI models I liked was the Botany Bay,w ere they did an ok job on the render and the model (mesh) looked significantly damaged and worn that it looked like a ship that had been drifting for a long time in space.

Between a few scattered shots, planets and recreation of Matte images you could see that CBS did some good work. But the bulk of their space bound CGI was incredibly flat and lifeless.

In my eyes they got about 40% of the quality of the shots I wanted to see. And almost all is based on either rushed renders, or meshes with very little detail.

Very little actual shot design did I dislike. Typically a few faster paced scenes in Tomorrow is Yesterday (warp around sun) and shots of the ship zooming on firing runs against Doomsday Machine ran contrary to the more stately shots that TOS and even the TOS films designed. But those are by far the exception. Design of shots wasn't the problem.

 

[RAMA]

They look way better than the original FX. They werent designed to be "modern" FX.

Do we really have to pull out the pictures again that showed how badly segmented and video game like the TOS-R D-7 was? They looked like shit compared to the TOS model work and would look like shit when presented against the TMP model work re-used in TNG.

Even if they were avg CGI they's still be better than the original FX work.

RAMA

 

[Gepard]

You just keep saying that. It won't get any more true.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

They look way better than the original FX. They werent designed to be "modern" FX.

Do we really have to pull out the pictures again that showed how badly segmented and video game like the TOS-R D-7 was? They looked like shit compared to the TOS model work and would look like shit when presented against the TMP model work re-used in TNG.

Even if they were avg CGI they's still be better than the original FX work.

RAMA

Yeah... okay. Disappointing, that's true. Very low polygon meshes. I have a D7 in C4D which looks more impressive.

I guess they had to work really fast on those shots. Rendering takes the most time. The more complex a model is, the more time you will need to render.
Complex shots can take up to several hours for one single frame.

Right now I am working on the "Neutral Zone" segment from 'A Final Unity' and rendering a fleet of Warbirds in 1080p takes really forever!

 

[tomswift2002]

I'm just watching "The Mind's Eye" right now and it'll be interesting to see the Visor visual mod redone in HD.

But with the TOS CGI, even though some shots look like they came from "Shattered Universe", but a number of the shots still look like they could've been filmed with models.

 

[JarodRussell]

Holy crap, that looks bad.

 

[davejames]

Not that they didn't have some shots I did really like. Most of the shots that I liked where Planet orbiting shots.

But much, of the ships done for TOS Remaster had very little surface texture and with them already freely admitting that they had to cut corners on the Enterprise to render it on a time frame they had to meet, clearly shows that the fx producers weren't able to the quality they wanted.

Well to me just because I can recognize that something is CG (and they haven't made it look 100% like a physical model) doesn't automatically make it bad. I had no problem accepting Gollum or Neytiri as real characters despite their obvious CG-ness, so accepting these CG ships as being real isn't a big deal for me either.

Whether the Enterprise looks like a CG effect or a 13 foot long wooden model (as it did in the original version), there's still a level of disbelief that has to be maintained. And for the most part I thought the CG in TOS-R was more than good enough.

Honestly the only problem I had with the Enterprise was the color of gray they used. I always preferred the lighter, greenish-gray color of the original model myself.

 

[TheSeeker]

I just watched Mudd's Women last night and didn't think it looked too bad. It really is too bad they couldn't have saved the original negatives of the model work though.