The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[Ovation]

You really shouldn't go around calling people "idiot" or "troll" in this forum. It's grounds for a warning. TNZ is the place to cut loose like that.

Nooooooo, really?

I've always looked at TNZ as the place for gentile and civilized discourse.

 

[SalvorHardin]

You really shouldn't go around calling people "idiot" or "troll" in this forum. It's grounds for a warning. TNZ is the place to cut loose like that.

Nooooooo, really?

I've always looked at TNZ as the place for gentile and civilized discourse.

The irony is that the 2 or 3 Trek XI threads that exist in TNZ were largely more gentle and civil than many threads have been in this forum

 

[Praetor]

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about following precedences that it was never very consistant on in the first place. The writers did what they probably felt that the needed to to get the story along, and I can live with that. Besides, Star Trek that came before has already set the precedence that you can travel back in time and make your own changes, only to go forward in time and find everything exactly how you left it. Anyone with common sense would know that this is bull-shit.

This.

 

[3D Master]

Nope.

Wrong.

Yes. Yes you are.

No. No, I'm not.

Which part of "The vast majority of Trek, non-Trek fans and critics enjoyed and praised his movie" do you consider incorrect? Whichever one you chose, you'll be wrong, so don't bother.

In case you hadn't noticed, I answered someone who was claiming that the creators couldn't win because people were lynching them on the time travel method used. I pointed out that that's not the reason people were lynching JJ and his movie.

To anyone with a brain and not a troll, that means he and my answer were talking about those who find severe fault with a movie; unless he himself is already wrong in assuming everyone finds fault with the movie. In the latter case, that's not my mistake, in the first; you're either an idiot for not realizing we are talking about the subset of people who find this movie abysmal, or you're a troll for attempting to make it look like those who find this movie abysmal are disconnected with reality.

So what are you? An idiot or a troll?

You really shouldn't go around calling people "idiot" or "troll" in this forum. It's grounds for a warning. TNZ is the place to cut loose like that.

I didn't call anyone anything. I invited you to call yourself something.

 

[M'Sharak]

In case you hadn't noticed, I answered someone who was claiming that the creators couldn't win because people were lynching them on the time travel method used. I pointed out that that's not the reason people were lynching JJ and his movie.

To anyone with a brain and not a troll, that means he and my answer were talking about those who find severe fault with a movie; unless he himself is already wrong in assuming everyone finds fault with the movie. In the latter case, that's not my mistake, in the first; you're either an idiot for not realizing we are talking about the subset of people who find this movie abysmal, or you're a troll for attempting to make it look like those who find this movie abysmal are disconnected with reality.

So what are you? An idiot or a troll?

You really shouldn't go around calling people "idiot" or "troll" in this forum. It's grounds for a warning. TNZ is the place to cut loose like that.

I didn't call anyone anything.

Oh, I think it's pretty clear that when you inferred that he must be the one or the other, it was nothing more than a sneaky flame. By then saying this:

I invited you to call yourself something.

You've essentially admitted that you were trying to goad him into a particular response (which he's declined to accommodate you by giving, by the way.) That's trolling.

So warned. Comments to PM

 

[RobertScorpio]

Regarding the time travel/alternate timeline:

Absolutely nothing in the movie suggests that its events are in an 'alternate' timeline that's co-existing alongside the 'prime' timeline. And absolutely nothing suggests that it's the same timeline that's been altered. We're not given indications either way, Uhura's wild guess notwithstanding.

Therefore, we must turn to other Trek for our interpretation of the events - previous time travel stories. Traditionally, in Trek, if you go back in time and change something, you alter the existing timeline you came from - not branch off into another timeline.

See 'Return to Yesterday', 'Yesterday's Enterprise,' 'City on the Edge of Forever', 'First Contact, whatever episode in which Data's head - from the past - is found (which means they went back in time to their OWN timeline)... etc etc etc.

Therefore I tend to lean toward the interpretation that the original timeline has been destroyed and does not exist.

It means, of course, that Spock Prime should be doing his damndest to fix the timeline, as he's been known to do in the past when time travel screws it up, but I'm sure that won't happen.

Good post and I agree. They are living in an altered form of their own past. As to why Spock isn't fixing it? Why would he ever want to deny nuSPOCK some quality time with Uhura. Even Nimoy is down with that!!!!

Rob

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about following precedences that it was never very consistant on in the first place. The writers did what they probably felt that the needed to to get the story along, and I can live with that. Besides, Star Trek that came before has already set the precedence that you can travel back in time and make your own changes, only to go forward in time and find everything exactly how you left it. Anyone with common sense would know that this is bull-shit.

This.

Yes its a very good point.

 

[number6]

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about following precedences that it was never very consistant on in the first place. The writers did what they probably felt that the needed to to get the story along, and I can live with that. Besides, Star Trek that came before has already set the precedence that you can travel back in time and make your own changes, only to go forward in time and find everything exactly how you left it. Anyone with common sense would know that this is bull-shit.

This.

Yes its a very good point.

A point that is easily lost on the purists who have elevated TOS to some sacred scroll in a golden ark.

 

[pookha]

as to why spock prime isnt trying to fix perhaps he has seen over the years just how dangerous that can be with what happened as the aftermath of yesterday's enteprise and the creation of sela.

 

[Therin of Andor]

fucking life has plot holes.

Hehehehehehe. Very true. And real life can also have the most amazing coincidences and hanging plot threads, which would look like a work of supposedly-weak fiction if it were made into a movie or a novel.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It means, of course, that Spock Prime should be doing his damndest to fix the timeline, as he's been known to do in the past when time travel screws it up, but I'm sure that won't happen.

If he finds a starship to slingshot around a sun, what exactly should he do to destroy Nero's ship as it comes through the black hole? Somehow convince Starfleet to meet the Narada with a stronger fleet than 47 Klingon warbirds?

 

[indranee]

fucking life has plot holes.

Hehehehehehe. Very true. And real life can also have the most amazing coincidences and hanging plot threads, which would look like a work of supposedly-weak fiction if it were made into a movie or a novel.

real life makes no sense!!

 

[Anticitizen]

It means, of course, that Spock Prime should be doing his damndest to fix the timeline, as he's been known to do in the past when time travel screws it up, but I'm sure that won't happen.

If he finds a starship to slingshot around a sun, what exactly should he do to destroy Nero's ship as it comes through the black hole? Somehow convince Starfleet to meet the Narada with a stronger fleet than 47 Klingon warbirds?

Red matter. Or, since he can apparently beam stuff from light-years away and through shields, beam a bomb on board from afar. It doesn't really matter.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

It means, of course, that Spock Prime should be doing his damndest to fix the timeline, as he's been known to do in the past when time travel screws it up, but I'm sure that won't happen.

If he finds a starship to slingshot around a sun, what exactly should he do to destroy Nero's ship as it comes through the black hole? Somehow convince Starfleet to meet the Narada with a stronger fleet than 47 Klingon warbirds?

Interstingly enough Orci or Kurtzman, which ever one was doing to Q and A at Trekmovie has commented that the warp slingshot around a sun timetravel thing doesn't work in NuTrek.

Red matter. Or, since he can apparently beam stuff from light-years away and through shields, beam a bomb on board from afar. It doesn't really matter.

All of Spock Prime's red matter slamed into the Narada at the end of the movie and he can't make more until 2387 if and thats if the technology is even still created in this timeline, also you still can't beam through shields so that wouldn't work.

 

[pookha]

i think the point that the narada destroyed the 47 klingon ships is the best case about just how hard it would be to change history.

 

[Borgminister]

Wonder if there's gonna be a space battle showing that in the "extended cut"?

 

[Anticitizen]

It means, of course, that Spock Prime should be doing his damndest to fix the timeline, as he's been known to do in the past when time travel screws it up, but I'm sure that won't happen.

If he finds a starship to slingshot around a sun, what exactly should he do to destroy Nero's ship as it comes through the black hole? Somehow convince Starfleet to meet the Narada with a stronger fleet than 47 Klingon warbirds?

Interstingly enough Orci or Kurtzman, which ever one was doing to Q and A at Trekmovie has commented that the warp slingshot around a sun timetravel thing doesn't work in NuTrek.

Red matter. Or, since he can apparently beam stuff from light-years away and through shields, beam a bomb on board from afar. It doesn't really matter.

All of Spock Prime's red matter slamed into the Narada at the end of the movie and he can'tmake more until 2387 if and thats if the technology is even stillcreated in this timeline, also you still can't beam through shields so that wouldn't work.

Okay, then have an automated ship on autopilot, travelling at warp speed, timed to slam into the Narada at Warp 7 the moment it emerges from the black hole. How it's done is not the point - I'm just saying that the character of Spock (prime) from TOS always seemed to think it was very important to 'restore' a timeline that got messed up, and it would seem out of character for him to do nothing. Which is why they should have gone with a straight-up reboot without the time travel.

 

[Australis]

Anticitizen, that ship has sailed. Let it go.

 

[Anticitizen]

Anticitizen, that ship has sailed. Let it go.

This is the 'grading and discussion' thread. I'm grading and discussing.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

If he finds a starship to slingshot around a sun, what exactly should he do to destroy Nero's ship as it comes through the black hole? Somehow convince Starfleet to meet the Narada with a stronger fleet than 47 Klingon warbirds?

Interstingly enough Orci or Kurtzman, which ever one was doing to Q and A at Trekmovie has commented that the warp slingshot around a sun timetravel thing doesn't work in NuTrek.

Red matter. Or, since he can apparently beam stuff from light-years away and through shields, beam a bomb on board from afar. It doesn't really matter.

All of Spock Prime's red matter slamed into the Narada at the end of the movie and he can'tmake more until 2387 if and thats if the technology is even stillcreated in this timeline, also you still can't beam through shields so that wouldn't work.

Okay, then have an automated ship on autopilot, travelling at warp speed, timed to slam into the Narada at Warp 7 the moment it emerges from the black hole.

And to do that you need the precise position of the Narada and the ship to arrive at the percise time the Narada exits which would be pretty hard to get EXACTLY right, and it would have to be exactly or it wouldn't work.

How it's done is not the point - I'm just saying that the character of Spock (prime) from TOS always seemed to think it was very important to 'restore' a timeline that got messed up, and it would seem out of character for him to do nothing.

Or he could have made peace with the fact that THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL HE COULD PULL IT OFF, and that trying could cause MORE DAMAGE to the timeline instead of fixing it.