The myth of the bad Ferengi episode's on "DS9."
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
I'm still watching DS9, but from what I've seen the Ferengi episodes aren't that bad. The bad Ferengi episodes thing is definitely true of TNG though. The Ferengi episodes in in TNG are unwatchable imho.
I agree that the Ferengi were terrible on TNG except for the Quark cameo in season 7. Other than that the best they had to offer was the guy on Risa in a Hawaian style shirt when Picard went on vacation and one good joke about chairs in "The Price." Maybe you could say their first apearance in season 1 were they are jumping around like monkeys but that only works on a "Mystery Science Theater 3000" type of way.
Jason
That was Rom right after his divorce.
How far are you into the show? "Prophet Motive" in season 3 seems to generally be considered the first "bad" Ferengi ep, though I've always liked that one myself...
Almost done with season 2 (I know, I know, I'm working on it). So I haven't gotten to Prophet Motive yet.
For me "Prophet Motive" doesn't count as a bad episode but not really good enough to be a great Ferengi episode either. The better episodes usually don't have Zek in them at all or that much. He was to one note of a character and while he can be funny at times it's usually more miss than hit with me.
Jason
I actually enjoyed Prophet Motive-It told us about Bashir, Jadzia, The Ferengi, Rom, and the Nagus.
It also showed the prophets in a rather morally ambiguous light-willing to rewrite the brains of those with worldview they find distasteful on a whim.
It also showed the prophets in a rather morally ambiguous light-willing to rewrite the brains of those with worldview they find distasteful on a whim.
For being a culture devoted entirely to greed and free market enterprise, they seemed like very poor businessmen. It would have been great to see Quark expand his bar into a chain of Casino resorts across the alpha quadrant over the course of the series. It would have been a good way to show how the Cardassians were holding everyone back during the occupation, and be a better display of the Ferengi business culture than what we ended up with. I didn't hate the episodes as they were, but they certainly did contradict the image of greedy and calculating Ferengi that they were trying to promote throughout the series by portraying them as bumbling fools or selfless heroes.
My own take is that the Ferengi worked best playing off other character and cultures, as in "House of Quark" or "Little Green Men," both of which I love. But when it was just Ferengi arguing with each other, as with most of the Grand Nagus or Moogie eps, that could get a bit tiresome.
In general, though, Quark was a great arc and Nog had a terrific character arc. Who would have guessed that it was Nog who would end up in Starfleet, not Jake?
In general, though, Quark was a great arc and Nog had a terrific character arc. Who would have guessed that it was Nog who would end up in Starfleet, not Jake?
I disagree with that. Anyone bothered by the capitalism part was already driven away by the series' general negativity about capitalism. Also the Ferengi are too far removed from realistic capitalism for any earth capitalist to identify with to really make anyone uncomfortable.
Just got back from a Vegas trip. The Ferengi are LIGHTWEIGHTS. He didn't even have video Dabo consoles along the bar.
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Amaris
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I love the Ferengi episodes, even "Profit and Lace." Oh, that one's cringy as all get-out, but there are still some fun moments in it. It also helps that Quark is one of my favorite characters anyway.
In my opinion, to any true fan of DS9 or just Trek in general, these somewhat wild card episodes are a welcomed break from the standard pace, the Ferengi episodes are a perfect example of this. They expand canon, and give the writers a chance to have as much fun as possible with ideas and situations that before were left mostly to speculation. 10/10 would see Quark's mom naked again.
I enjoy almost all Ferengi episodes, except for Profit and Lace and The magnificent Ferengi.
The first one I find just too tired and cliched to enjoy -- deriving comedy from dressing someone up as a female has been done too many times. Even though Quark doesn't do a bad job in this one.
The last one I even still enjoy when only looking at separate pieces and character interactions, but all in all it's just too contrived and absurd for me (Quark setting up a rescue squad in which he participates himself, and he leaves his nephew that only very recently made ensign in charge? Brunt just happening to turn up? Cousin Gaila? The feds happily providing their makeshift rescue mission with a high-degree dominion hostage?). ... this one just steps over my personal 'willing to suspend disbelief' line.
The first one I find just too tired and cliched to enjoy -- deriving comedy from dressing someone up as a female has been done too many times. Even though Quark doesn't do a bad job in this one.
The last one I even still enjoy when only looking at separate pieces and character interactions, but all in all it's just too contrived and absurd for me (Quark setting up a rescue squad in which he participates himself, and he leaves his nephew that only very recently made ensign in charge? Brunt just happening to turn up? Cousin Gaila? The feds happily providing their makeshift rescue mission with a high-degree dominion hostage?). ... this one just steps over my personal 'willing to suspend disbelief' line.
I have issues with "The Magnificent Ferengi" as well but I am surprised you picked it over "Ferengi Love Songs" I think it was called.
Jason
^yeah, that one is pretty absurd as well, but I still like that one. Don't know what makes the difference for me, exactly.
Perhaps I feel that in Ferengi Love Songs, it has this whoppingly ridiculous premise, yes, but at least a lot of the rest of the episode seems to flow from that in a somewhat logical sense (limited I grant you), no matter how absurd the situations become, whereas in the magnificient ferengi there are just too many separate implausibilities needed to make the situations possible in which our Ferengi squad finds themselves.
Perhaps unconsciously I have a "allow 1 or 2 ridiculous plot elements for free before you start counting in comedy episodes" rule in my head, don't know.
Then again, perhaps I'll have to rewatch all of them for a re-evaluation, has been some time ago
Perhaps I feel that in Ferengi Love Songs, it has this whoppingly ridiculous premise, yes, but at least a lot of the rest of the episode seems to flow from that in a somewhat logical sense (limited I grant you), no matter how absurd the situations become, whereas in the magnificient ferengi there are just too many separate implausibilities needed to make the situations possible in which our Ferengi squad finds themselves.
Perhaps unconsciously I have a "allow 1 or 2 ridiculous plot elements for free before you start counting in comedy episodes" rule in my head, don't know.
Then again, perhaps I'll have to rewatch all of them for a re-evaluation, has been some time ago
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Brunt was looking to curry favour with the Nagus.
I always liked the Ferengi episodes. The one character I get annoyed by(whom everyone else apparently loves) is Rom. I loved the Grand Nagus, and Moogie, Brunt, and the rest. I really liked Nog. He sort of idolized humanity, but still kept his lobes about him.
My fav. Episodes are Little Green Men, the one where Brunt tries to get Quark killed, and Ent's Acquisition.
My fav. Episodes are Little Green Men, the one where Brunt tries to get Quark killed, and Ent's Acquisition.
I thought The Magnificent Ferengi was hilarious. It just worked for me. 
I like "The Magnificent Ferengi", but it also has that beat where Quark and Rom are crawling down the Jeffries tube and accidentally pop out in Sisko's office.
All I can think of every time is: in the middle of this brutal war, there is an unsecured secret pathway directly into the private office of one of the most important Starfleet leaders in the entire conflict?!? This is not a moment of harmless comic wackiness, this is a huge security problem!
You can also really feel the hand of the writer twisting the plot into knots to explain the Dominion abducting Moogie, which makes no sense at all. IIRC, a workaround for the fact that it was supposed to be about rescuing the Nagus (which would have made perfect Star Trek sense), but Wallace Shawn was not available.
All that being said, "Magnificent Ferengi" buys a lot of good will from me simply by involving the Ferengi in the Dominion conflict -- I always thought it was a huge missed opportunity for the series to not continue with that. Replace all of that last trio of outrageously terrible Ferengi eps (Profit & Lace, Emperor's New Cloak, Dogs Of War) with a mini-arc about them getting into bed with the Dominion, but as double agents to help the war effort -- it could have been great.
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