The myth of the bad Ferengi episode's on "DS9."

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Jayson1, May 17, 2017.

  1. Mirror_Barclay

    Mirror_Barclay Commander Red Shirt

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    There were some good eps and bad eps... and some better portrayals, Quark especially. Certainly I liked them much better than the Klingon Honor eps, perhaps because of the greater variance in individuals involved, tone, nature of the comedy.

    I do agree that they became too much a caricature at times, though I wasn't looking for biting satire either. But some comic relief was welcome on an often serious (sometimes too serious) show.
     
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  2. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This so much! The Klingon Honour Episodes are the only ones I skip because they're not bad per se; they'r just super dull. At least the Ferengi aren't dull.
     
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  3. cultcross

    cultcross Presented in Supermarionation Moderator

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    I agree. While Ferengi motivations remained quite consistent, we saw many different takes on this through the show, and different interpretations. One of my favourite Ferengi bits in the show is Nog in Treachery, Faith, and the Great River, when he shows how he still thinks like a Ferengi, but has applied it to a different kind of profit.
    Quark, Rom and Nog are consistently interesting throughout the show and there were definitely other interesting Ferengi who came and went. The part for me which went wrong was the Zek/Moogie nonsense which sadly took up way too much of the later Ferengi episodes.
    With a Klingon episode, you know what you're getting. A Ferengi episode could be just about anything.
     
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  4. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    True that. And yes, Treachery, Faith, and the Great River is a great episode. The Ferengi-heavy shows could be good or bad, depending on the focus. I can't speak for anyone but myself, of course, but I find the Klingon episodes predictable and tiresome.
     
  5. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    I was about to write that there should be a Ferengi Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility, but in truth, such a law would probably apply to all the fictional races: if an episode has more than 4 speaking parts for a particular alien race, the more likely the episode will be annoying.
     
  6. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Having comic relief characters is not the problem. The problem is when said comic relief is 3rd grade level.

    Ferengi have been used for good comic relief. Like, when Jadzia confused the rules for Peace and War being good for business. Or the famous root beer scene. But in the most memorable episodes they are mostly screaming and hitting each other or just rattling off on the nose 'Opposite day' morals.

    Those times all they did was take a human aphorism and reverse it are lazy and groan-worthy, and way too often that's all they did.

    And it never made any sense that in a laissez faire economy, the government could still seize all your property at will. The writers couldn't decide if Ferengi society was libertarian or totalitarian.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  7. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ferengi society apparently is libertarian for men, totalitarian for women, only if you fail to be enough of a jerk it magically becomes totalitarian for you, even if in those cases being less of a jerk would net you more profit.

    Because no sci-fi writer has ever taken an economics class.
     
  8. kkt

    kkt Captain Captain

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    Breaking certain rules results in asset confescation. The rules are understood ahead of time by all Ferengi: A contract is a contract is a contract. Etc.
     
  9. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly, which makes no sense. A society which both has strictly free enterprise and a government empowered to seize assets at will. They also have a prenuptual agreement mandate (Why would you have to protect your assets if women aren't allowed to sue anyway?), and a requirement not to give your workers benefits even if it helps your own bottom line.

    Not to mention that the Nagus has the power to just assume ownership of your business for pennies at will with no recourse.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  10. Andrews

    Andrews Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I'm biased as the Ferengi focused episodes are some of my favorites. Outside of Profit and Lace for obvious reasons, that didn't age well.
     
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  11. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The character episodes are mostly really good, like Bar Association or Treachery, Faith, and The Great River. There's the silly but good ones, e.g. Little Green Men. There's It's Only A Paper Moon, which is pretty great...lots of good Ferengi stuff in there.
     
  12. kkt

    kkt Captain Captain

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    The "at will" is the problem. It's not "at will". It's if you break some of the most important Ferengi laws. If you can break a contract with only minor penalties, free enterprise could not thrive.
     
  13. Armus

    Armus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Body Parts" and "Business as Usual" are two favs of mine. In both episodes Quark is faced with a moral dilemma and there's a thoughtfulness in the script and the performances. Then there's "Profit and Lace"....Quark in drag. Those "moogie" episodes...just hearing Rom say "moogie" is painful.
     
  14. jaime

    jaime Commodore Commodore

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    I would say to the second point, whilst true, is not accurate to Ferengi. They are Arab stereotypes which is eastern. (I wrote at length why, but the frelling JavaScript até my post. Three times.)
     
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  15. Tundra Saint

    Tundra Saint Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Personally I consider Profit and Lace to be the only episode thats truly horrible. The rest range from mediocre to fantastic. with House of Quark being my favorite.
     
  16. jaime

    jaime Commodore Commodore

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    I get bored in little green men after the initial viewing. Profit and Lace is unfairly maligned I think.
     
  17. Armus

    Armus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "The Emperor's New Cloak" may be the worse one. "Profit and Lace" is less tasteless in my view.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. jaime

    jaime Commodore Commodore

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    A lot of discussion around profit and Lace always has me think of the sitcom 'Mrs Browns Boys' and the immortal line 'it's a man in a fecking dress.' :)
     
  19. UnknownSample

    UnknownSample Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Next Gen tried to present Ferengi seriously, and so fell flat on their faces. The makers of DS9, stuck in a universe that had Ferengi in it, had the sense to use them for comedy, and this worked. The comedy in these episodes was written by the same writers generally and worked as well as comedy in non-Ferengi episodes, for me. Once they found a way to use the Ferengi that worked, they started adding some seriousness and depth back in, gradually.

    I liked the Ferengi episodes more and more each time, up until Profit and Lace, which blew that little trend out of the water.
     
  20. Lous

    Lous Ensign Red Shirt

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    I love the Ferengi episodes, they are the most fun for me. There's a kind of satire with human greed that I love.