The movie Contact..

[Gingerbread Demon]

I'm getting a copy too...... I should have done this years ago.

I do love the movie though.

Just out of interest if you were in a ship at the edge of our solar system what signals would you get from Earth if you had the right equipment and correct antenna alignment etc?

 

[Christopher]

Just out of interest if you were in a ship at the edge of our solar system what signals would you get from Earth if you had the right equipment and correct antenna alignment etc?

Well, it depends on how you define the edge (Kuiper belt? Heliopause? Outer Oort cloud boundary?), but it would mainly be the stronger signals. Despite what Contact showed, it'd be hard to pick up weak 1930s TV broadcasts from as far away as Vega unless you had an antenna as wide as a star system. And we're broadcasting less signal into space than we used to, now that so much of our communication has gone to cable and fiber optics and satellites and the like rather than being blasted out in all directions. The most powerful signals Earth gives off are things like military radar.

Still, a receiver on the edge of the system (let's just say the heliopause) would receive exponentially stronger signals than a receiver in a different system. So it might be able to detect some satellite communication spillage as well as military and weather radars.

 

[USS Firefly]

I do love the movie though

I haven't even seen the movie yet ☺

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Well, it depends on how you define the edge (Kuiper belt? Heliopause? Outer Oort cloud boundary?), but it would mainly be the stronger signals. Despite what Contact showed, it'd be hard to pick up weak 1930s TV broadcasts from as far away as Vega unless you had an antenna as wide as a star system. And we're broadcasting less signal into space than we used to, now that so much of our communication has gone to cable and fiber optics and satellites and the like rather than being blasted out in all directions. The most powerful signals Earth gives off are things like military radar.

Still, a receiver on the edge of the system (let's just say the heliopause) would receive exponentially stronger signals than a receiver in a different system. So it might be able to detect some satellite communication spillage as well as military and weather radars.

Way to spoil my wishful thinking

OK supposing we were still broadcasting all over the place and we didn't have fiber and cable....... IF and that's a very big IF in that case from that distance what kind of broadcasts if any could we pick up?

 

[RAMA]

Zemeckis shoehorned religious aspects in the movie that I think hurt it. They differed from the portrayal in the novel. The Sagans argued against the changes but of course, the Director prevailed. So it's not really the political portion that was a problem, it was religion having too much influence, and punctuating the uncertainty of Ellie.

The ending of the book is the one thing that probably would have made the movie even better. Despite that, it's still one of my top movies of the 90s.

The movie contact got me thinking. I love this movie but it feels so very political what with Ellie being an avowed atheist, and the political footballing about whether or not she should be the one to go in the machine and see what it does. I'm wondering if we ever had such a venture for real and given the chance to visit aliens using a machine they provided the plans for would the same kind of nonsense happen in the real world?

Would we be trying to send a believer like they wanted to do in the movie or would merit prevail and the best person for the job be selected?

What do you think?

I'd like to think for such a venture we don't have any politicians anywhere near the choosing of our first human ambassador for extraterrestrial contact, for such an event. I'm probably being way too hopeful and optimistic.

 

[Christopher]

OK supposing we were still broadcasting all over the place and we didn't have fiber and cable....... IF and that's a very big IF in that case from that distance what kind of broadcasts if any could we pick up?

With a sensitive enough receiver, you could pick up most things. That's been the popular claim for generations, that there's this whole wavefront of radio and TV programs expanding spherically into space, that some new alien world may have just come into range to see Lucy whine to Ricky about wanting to be in the show. But in practice, TV and radio signals would become too faint to distinguish from interstellar background noise at about 1 light year. As I said, at a greater distance you'd need an incredibly massive, sensitive radio telescope to discern the signal, and you'd have to tease what you could out of the noise, so it probably wouldn't be a complete or clear signal.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

With a sensitive enough receiver, you could pick up most things. That's been the popular claim for generations, that there's this whole wavefront of radio and TV programs expanding spherically into space, that some new alien world may have just come into range to see Lucy whine to Ricky about wanting to be in the show. But in practice, TV and radio signals would become too faint to distinguish from interstellar background noise at about 1 light year. As I said, at a greater distance you'd need an incredibly massive, sensitive radio telescope to discern the signal, and you'd have to tease what you could out of the noise, so it probably wouldn't be a complete or clear signal.

Oh darn it. So I can't catch up on GOT from the edge of the solar system? "sad face"

 

[Mr Awe]

Oh darn it. So I can't catch up on GOT from the edge of the solar system? "sad face"

If you were at the inner edge of the Kuiper belt, which is just beyond all of the planets, and had the proper equipment, you'd be able to watch TV that was broadcast all of 4 hours ago! The distance from the sun to the inner edge of the Kuiper belt is 4 light hours.

Of course, GoT is on HBO so it is not broadcast at all. You'd need a really, really long cable!

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

If you were at the inner edge of the Kuiper belt, which is just beyond all of the planets, and had the proper equipment, you'd be able to watch TV that was broadcast all of 4 hours ago! The distance from the sun to the inner edge of the Kuiper belt is 4 light hours.

Of course, GoT is on HBO so it is not broadcast at all. You'd need a really, really long cable!

Oopsie forgot about that...... Ooh so you can watch TV that's 4 hours old.....

Puts on thinking hat.

What about optical telescopes? Could you station one at the end of the solar system and watch events 4 hours ago on Earth? It would be like that machine in Deja Vu?

Oh and I know super crazy and not at all how that would work. But if the radio waves are 4 hours old what about light?

 

[Amaris]

Oopsie forgot about that...... Ooh so you can watch TV that's 4 hours old.....

Puts on thinking hat.

What about optical telescopes? Could you station one at the end of the solar system and watch events 4 hours ago on Earth? It would be like that machine in Deja Vu?

Oh and I know super crazy and not at all how that would work. But if the radio waves are 4 hours old what about light?

Also 4 hours old. Radio waves move at the speed of light.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Also 4 hours old. Radio waves move at the speed of light.

So aside from needing a fucking huge optical mirror and focusing system you could build a deja vu machine? Cool

 

[Christopher]

So aside from needing a fucking huge optical mirror and focusing system you could build a deja vu machine? Cool

Only if you could travel faster than light to get out there, which is very probably impossible. Yes, if you're already out there, then any signal you receive is going to be hours or days old, but it will be your first time experiencing it. It's more like getting snail mail than going back in time.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Only if you could travel faster than light to get out there, which is very probably impossible. Yes, if you're already out there, then any signal you receive is going to be hours or days old, but it will be your first time experiencing it. It's more like getting snail mail than going back in time.

Oh bugger...

 

[Mr Awe]

Only if you could travel faster than light to get out there, which is very probably impossible. Yes, if you're already out there, then any signal you receive is going to be hours or days old, but it will be your first time experiencing it. It's more like getting snail mail than going back in time.

Wormholes (perhaps just sending the signal through to your location) or instantaneous quantum communication from the deep space telescope to your location could do the trick. Not possible today but the latter is particularly possible in the future.

 

[publiusr]

Still, a receiver on the edge of the system (let's just say the heliopause) would receive exponentially stronger signals than a receiver in a different system. So it might be able to detect some satellite communication spillage as well as military and weather radars.

I've often thought the junk in our system amounted to ground clutter--and that SETI is best done outside most of our systems junk

Look, even in everyday, non-scientific matters, you can't just go through life pre-emptively assuming that everything you think you know is wrong.

Heh--funny man. That's my life story

I see a great big sign on a one way street
Goin' down the wrong way who do I meet
A big policeman walkin' his beat
Everything I do is wrong

Everything I do is wrong on me
Everything I do is wrong
I just don't see how I'm gonna get along
'Cause everything I do is wrong

 

[USS Firefly]

I am at page 102 and find the book a little bit disappointing, it's very scientific and a little bit boring. Hopefully that is going to chance

 

[Christopher]

I am at page 102 and find the book a little bit disappointing, it's very scientific and a little bit boring. Hopefully that is going to chance

It's very scientific throughout, and very philosophical. That's what I love about it. It's a deeply thoughtful and in-depth exploration of the questions and ideas surrounding contact with aliens and the effect it would have on human society. If you're expecting it to suddenly turn into some kind of fast-paced action thriller, don't hold your breath. For me, it's the ideas that make it exciting.

 

[Reverend]

I am at page 102 and find the book a little bit disappointing, it's very scientific and a little bit boring. Hopefully that is going to chance

...You do know it was written by Carl Sagan, right? What did you expect?

 

[Mysterion]

I am at page 102 and find the book a little bit disappointing, it's very scientific and a little bit boring. Hopefully that is going to chance

WHY would they let a scientist write a science fiction novel!? The horror, the horror...

 

[Mr Awe]

It's very scientific throughout, and very philosophical. That's what I love about it. It's a deeply thoughtful and in-depth exploration of the questions and ideas surrounding contact with aliens and the effect it would have on human society. If you're expecting it to suddenly turn into some kind of fast-paced action thriller, don't hold your breath. For me, it's the ideas that make it exciting.

Definitely agree with Christopher on this one. I first read it as a kid when it first came out. I have the original first edition hard back somewhere. I was completely enthralled by the ideas.