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The merged and improved (?) KIC 8462852 thread

I was looking at the location of KIC 8462 again and noticed that KIC 8462 is located within the boundary of three different stars that form a right triangle.

1. Deneb - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deneb , A2 star.
2. Rukh - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Cygni , B9 III + F1 V star, A B-type main-sequence star (B V) is a main-sequence (hydrogen-burning). An F-type main-sequence star (F V) is a main-sequence, hydrogen-fusing star
3. Sadr - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_Cygni , F8 star.

1. Could the position of KIC 8462 within the Triangle of Tabby's Star create reactions with KIC 8462 that would cause the star to dim?
2.Could Rukh being a Combination star affect the brightness of KIC 8462 seeing as how KIC 8462 is rather close?
3. I looked up the difference between hydrogen-burning and hydrogen-fusing stars and really couldn't tell the difference.

If there are slight difference between hydrogen-burning and hydrogen-fusing stars could the process of Rukh somehow be siphoning off of the energy of KIC 8462 causing it dim?
 
I was looking at the location of KIC 8462 again and noticed that KIC 8462 is located within the boundary of three different stars that form a right triangle.
...
1. Could the position of KIC 8462 within the Triangle of Tabby's Star create reactions with KIC 8462 that would cause the star to dim?
No. The distances between those stars is too vast. You've already linked to a recent article about a more likely cause of the dimming (planetary destruction and ingestion) and I provided a link to the original paper.
2.Could Rukh being a Combination star affect the brightness of KIC 8462 seeing as how KIC 8462 is rather close?
They are over a thousand light years apart.
3. I looked up the difference between hydrogen-burning and hydrogen-fusing stars and really couldn't tell the difference.
They are names for the same process -- hydrogen-burning is not an accurate term as combustion in oxygen is not involved and the hydrogen involved exists in a completely ionised state as bare protons. A more correct term would be the proton-proton fusion cycle or the proton-proton chain reaction. In main sequence stars of more than about 1.5 solar masses, the CNO cycle dominates.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Astro/procyc.html
http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/C/CNO+cycle

If there are slight difference between hydrogen-burning and hydrogen-fusing stars could the process of Rukh somehow be siphoning off of the energy of KIC 8462 causing it dim?
No.
 
No. The distances between those stars is too vast. You've already linked to a recent article about a more likely cause of the dimming (planetary destruction and ingestion) and I provided a link to the original paper.

Perhaps.

At day 425 and 1175 they are mirrored increases in the light curve of KIC that are nearly identical. Between the two increases in the light curve is the 15% dim of the light curve of KIC 8462.

A planet, if large enough, colliding with KIC 8462 could possibly cause the increase based on the mass of the planet as well as the planets mineral composition.

The planet would have to be a Super Gas Giant at least five times the mass of Jupiter. A planet such as Kappa And b, 13 times more massive than Jupiter could have been type of planet that collided with KIC 8462. Possibly even a brown dwarf. A brown dwarf is a failed star that could even have more mass than Kappa And b which could have potentially carried its orbitals with it during the collision that would have attributed for the smaller decreases in the light curve as the orbitals broke apart due to the thermal exchange that took place between KIC and the orbitals that would have caused a debris field to form until the debris burnt up.

http://www.space.com/18522-super-jupiter-alien-planet-photo.html
 
Even a 13 Jupiter mass planet is only about 1% of the mass of KIC 8462852.

So did you read the original paper?

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1612.07332v1.pdf

The abstract:
The Kepler-field star KIC 8462852, an otherwise apparently ordinary F3 main-sequence star, showed several highly unusual dimming events of variable depth and duration. Adding to the mystery was the discovery that KIC 8462852 faded by 14% from 1890 to 1989 (Schaefer 2016), as well as by another 3% over the 4 year Kepler mission (Montet & Simon 2016). Following an initial suggestion by Wright & Sigurdsson, we propose that the secular dimming behavior is the result of the inspiral of a planetary body or bodies into KIC 8462852, which took place ∼ 10−10^4 years ago (depending on the planet mass). Gravitational energy released as the body inspirals into the outer layers of the star caused a temporary and unobserved brightening, from which the stellar flux is now returning to the quiescent state. The transient dimming events could then be due to obscuration by planetary debris from an earlier partial disruption of the same inspiraling bodies, or due to evaporation and out-gassing from a tidally detached moon system. Alternatively, the dimming events could arise from a large number of bodies comet- or planetesimal-mass bodies placed onto high eccentricity orbits by the same mechanism (e.g. Lidov-Kozai oscillations due to the outer M-dwarf companion) responsible for driving the more massive planets into KIC 8462852. The required high occurrence rate of KIC 8462852-like systems which have undergone recent major planet inspiral event(s) is the greatest challenge to the model, placing large lower limits on the mass of planetary systems surrounding F stars and/or requiring an unlikely coincidence to catch KIC 8462852 in its current state

The paper also suggests ways of testing the validity of this hypothesis. While we're waiting for the results of such observations, I believe it struggles to explain the exhibited profile of the short-term dimming events and there remains the low probability of observing star such as KIC 8462852 undergoing such behaviour.
 
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If you want to see something interesting concerning groups of stars:
http://orbitsimulator.com/constellations/constellationProperMotion.html

The Hunter stays still, but his bow moves. The Crux stays a cross for eons...
https://forum.cosmoquest.org/showthread.php?163733-Proper-Motion-of-all-88-constellations

Mr. Publiusr, could you locate any gif's of the constellation that KIC 8462 is located in? The search criteria for the gif's would be to show the pattern of star movements around KIC 8462 starting in 1890 to the recent Kepler mission.
 
Even a 13 Jupiter mass planet is only about 1% of the mass of KIC 8462852.

So did you read the original paper?

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1612.07332v1.pdf

The abstract:


The paper also suggests ways of testing the validity of this hypothesis. While we're waiting for the results of such observations, I believe it struggles to explain the exhibited profile of the short-term dimming events and there remains the low probability of observing star such as KIC 8462852 undergoing such behaviour.


ABSTRACT The Kepler-field star KIC 8462852, an otherwise apparently ordinary F3 main-sequence star, showed several highly unusual dimming events of variable depth and duration. Adding to the mystery was the discovery that KIC 8462852 faded by 14% from 1890 to 1989 (Schaefer 2016), as well as by another 3% over the 4 year Kepler mission (Montet & Simon 2016). Following an initial suggestion by Wright & Sigurdsson, we propose that the secular dimming behavior is the result of the inspiral of a planetary body or bodies into KIC 8462852, which took place ∼ 10−104 years ago (depending on the planet mass). Gravitational energy released as the body inspirals into the outer layers of the star caused a temporary and unobserved brightening, from which the stellar flux is now returning to the quiescent state. The transient dimming events could then be due to obscuration by planetary debris from an earlier partial disruption of the same inspiraling bodies, or due to evaporation and out-gassing from a tidally detached moon system. Alternatively, the dimming events could arise from a large number of bodies comet- or planetesimal-mass bodies placed onto high eccentricity orbits by the same mechanism (e.g. Lidov-Kozai oscillations due to the outer M-dwarf companion) responsible for driving the more massive planets into KIC 8462852. The required high occurrence rate of KIC 8462852-like systems which have undergone recent major planet inspiral event(s) is the greatest challenge to the model, placing large lower limits on the mass of planetary systems surrounding F stars and/or requiring an unlikely coincidence to catch KIC 8462852 in its current state

Notes:

1890 - first year in which the light curve of KIC 8462 decreased and was recorded
- from 1890 to 1989 the light curve of KIC decreased by .1414141414141414% each year for 99 years totaling
a 14% decrease in the light curve of KIC 8462.

The .1414% decrease in light over 99 years would remain consistent with a Super Jupiter transiting across KIC 8462 each year putting the Super Jupiter sized planet possibly within an approximately same orbital zone around KIC 8462 that Earth orbits around our Sun.

The decrease however would not increase to 14% but would remain constant at .1414% if the object causing the decrease in light of KIC 8462 was in fact a planet.

Following an initial suggestion by Wright & Sigurdsson, we propose that the secular dimming behavior is the result of the inspiral of a planetary body or bodies into KIC 8462852, which took place ∼ 10−104 years ago (depending on the planet mass).

Inspiral of a large planet 13 times the mass of Jupiter or even a large group of planets most likely would not cause a decrease in the light curve of KIC 8462 to 14% over 99 years as the inspiral would cause the debris to heat up and register in the IR spectrum. Based on the large cometary theory that was first used to explain the decrease in the light curve of KIC 8462 the IR signatures were not detected in that instance either.

Could A Black Hole Be Blocking The Light From KIC 8462 - Maybe

http://www.popsci.com/could-black-hole-be-blocking-light-from-that-alien-megastructure-star#page-2


An interstellar black hole disk? Maybe!
Although a black hole is definitely not eating up the light from Boyajian's Star, there's another way a black hole could be blocking the light. Maybe there's something big and dark in the interstellar medium between Boyajian's Star and Earth.

A disk of material orbiting a black hole is one possible explanation. (Debris disks also orbit stars and planets, but since astronomers don't see anything like that, this object would have to be dark … such as a black hole.)

For this hypothesis to work, the disk of material clotting around the black hole would have to be huge--something on the order of 600 times the distance between the Earth and the Sun--in order to block the star's light for such long periods of time, despite the star's monthly movements.

Material within the Black Hole Disk must act like glass in order to cause a continual decrease in light over 99 years of .1414% each year for 99 years. This means that the material density of the disk must have became larger over 99 years causing the decrease to reach a peak of 14% and then 20%

This section would explain the theory better.

Refractive Index
You’re probably familiar with the concept of “traveling at the speed of light”, but did you know that the speed of light can change? Light’s speed is reduced when it travels through a medium due to the interaction of photons with electrons. Typically, higher electron densities in a material result in lower velocities. This is why light travels fast in glass, faster in water, and fastest in a vacuum. The refractive index (n) of a material is defined as the ratio of the speed of light in a vacuum to that of light in the material.

http://www.koppglass.com/blog/optical-properties-of-glass-how-light-and-glass-interact/

But when Kepler took it readings the light decreased by 3% (14% to 17%) over the four years of the Kepler mission. That is a .75% increase in the decrease on yearly basis compared to the 99 years increase of the decrease of the light curve of .1414%. The difference is .6086% which over 99 years would equal a .006147474% decrease in the light curve of KIC 8462. An object would be too small to register such a decrease in the light of the sun at .006147474%

The sudden increase in the decrease of light from KIC 8462 over four years compared to 99 years would either be the result of an extremely dense section of the disk having material similar to glass that would effect the light of KIC 8462 or a large section of plate glass meant to collect light and convert it to electrical energy.

This video explains why comets and even planetary debris infalling into KIC 8462 cannot be the reason for the decrease in the light curve of KIC 8462.

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Mr. Publiusr, could you locate any gif's of the constellation that KIC 8462 is located in? The search criteria for the gif's would be to show the pattern of star movements around KIC 8462 starting in 1890 to the recent Kepler mission.
Cygnus is already on that page. But this star is far too faint to see, and therefore wasn't included.
 
For "Heaven's sake", does it need to be repeated that constellations are imaginary constructs imposed upon the night sky by man's imagination and that the stars "in Cygnus" are at vastly different distances.

I expect the Gaia stellar parallax mission will provide very detailed data on stellar motions and distances in the vicinity of KIC 8462852.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_(spacecraft)

Gaia has these goals:
  • Determine the position, parallax, and annual proper motion of 1 billion stars with an accuracy of about 20 microarcseconds (µas) at 15 mag, and 200 µas at 20 mag.
  • Determine the positions of stars at a magnitude of V = 10 down to a precision of 7 μas—this is equivalent to measuring the position to within the diameter of a hair from 1000 km away—between 12 and 25 μas down to V = 15, and between 100 and 300 μas to V = 20, depending on the colour of the star.
  • The distance to about 20 million stars will thus be measured with a precision of 1% or better, and about 200 million distances will be measured to better than 10%. Distances accurate to 10% will be achieved as far away as the Galactic Centre, 30,000 light-years away.
  • Measure the tangential speed of 40 million stars to a precision of better than 0.5 km/s.
  • Derive the atmospheric parameters (effective temperature, line-of-sight interstellar extinction, surface gravity, metallicity) for all stars observed, plus some more detailed chemical abundances for targets brighter than V = 15.
  • ...
 
For "Heaven's sake", does it need to be repeated that constellations are imaginary constructs imposed upon the night sky by man's imagination and that the stars "in Cygnus" are at vastly different distances.

That's where you fail. You can't take something imaginary and pinpoint a location within the imagination. If humans didn't have such an imagination then humans would still be living in dirty little caves playing with the stone elves, crystal beetles and singing Koom By Ya by the Sub-Quasar induced campfire mind you.

Computer..."....."

Commander Taggert ..."Good choice Computer."

What the most interesting aspect of KIC 8462 is that over a period of 99 years the light curve decreased, on average by .1414% every year.

Within the last four years of the Kepler mission the light curve of KIC 8462 has decreased, on average by .75% every year.

Within the four year frame of the Kepler mission the light curve decreased, on average by .6086 more than a year at .1414%.

At .1414% over four years that is a total of a .5656% decrease in the curve of KIC 8462.

The light curve of KIC 8462 therefore decreased at a .043% increase for the 1st four years of the .74% decrease compared to the first four years of the .1414% decrease in the light curve.

If the decrease in the light curve continues on its current trend at .75% for 99 years the total light curve decrease would result in a 74.25% dimming effect of KIC 8462 with only 25.74% of the total light from KIC 8462 being detected.

If it's not a black hole.

If it's not a swarm of rogue comets, Comets vaporizing at a rate to create the .75% decrease in the light curve over four years would have been detected on IR.

If it's not planets infalling into KIC 8462, a super large planet or group of super large planets infalling into KIC 8462 to create the .75% decrease in light curve over four years would have been detected on IR as well.

...and KIC 8462 is a normal star.

Then what is left?
 
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+1 Not only here but seemingly also on all other websites where KIC 8462852 is mentioned.

Wouldn't the re-inflation of a Super Gas Giant be detected as an extremely slow and developing inflation though?

A gas giant re-inflating at a rate enough to reduce the light curve of KIC 8462 by .75% per year for four years should be a very detectable event.


Another interesting thought that I had regarding re-inflating gas giants is this.

Since the gas giant would re-inflate perhaps the re-inflation process is actually how gas giants are born. During the early life of a solar system and there would have to be a lot of gas present orbiting a star. The gas would accumulate in one location orbiting the star that over time would inflate based on the reactions between the gas and the sun. Once the gas giant large enough and stopped inflating it would begin to produce its own gravitational field.
 
Another article discussion how black holes effect stars they come into contact with.

http://www.space.com/35565-supermassive-black-hole-stars-magnetism-computer-simulations.html

I thought the article was rather interesting because it discussed the aspects of a black hole glancing off of a star. Sometimes a black hole glance off a star and not cause to much damage but would cause the star to be harder to see.

If the light curve of KIC 8462 continues to dim at the .75℅ yearly Kepler value compared to the yearly .1414 value then perhaps a black hole or something similar to a black hole is effecting the light curve of KIC 8462 continuing to dim in much the same way the article discussed.
 
c2b4d2fede6f33f6c73452360b7dd13e2c9836921645e420b9bf84c1df231946.jpg
 
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