The merged and improved (?) KIC 8462852 thread

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Dryson, Oct 20, 2015.

  1. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 22, 2010
    Speaking of pet theories, the New Horizon probe used both a Centaur and a solid upper stage.

    New Horizons used Jupiter not only for gravity assist--but to alter its trajectory towards Pluto.

    I wonder if that (or another) spent Centaur shell just so happened to move past Jupiter in such a trajectory--or is that too small to see?
  2. { Emilia }

    { Emilia } Madness Moderator

    Apr 17, 2011
    Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM.

    I also see threads in this forum that have developed a reasonable conversation.
    This thread is getting a time-out, though. It jumped the shark ages ago.
  3. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 13, 2014
    Here are example of elements that reflect IR light if present in the dust ring around Tabby's Star.

    Examples of materials have been given in the answer above, but the principle is:

    1. To let visible light through, the material has to be either a high bandwidth (more precisely, higher than 3.2 eV) e.g. glass, diamond etc. Or it has to be very thin (like a thin film of metal, with a thickness of a few nanometer).

    2. To reflect IR, the material has to have free electrons. This means the same films of metal work fine; and so do oxides like indium tin oxide (ITO), zinc oxide (ZnO) etc. These oxides are what are used in the low-e glass coatings. In a double-paned window, these layers are put on the inside of the outer glass pane, to maximize reflection.

    Thus materials which have both of these properties are the transparent (conducting) oxides or thin films of metal of a few nm thickness.

    Incidentally, many of us have witnessed metals reflecting off IR, when we accidentally leave some of that aluminium foil in the microwave. Microwaves can be thought of as far IR, which interact with the free electrons in the metal and put on that sparkly show your microwave hates. (Hence no metals recommended in there!)

    I had it backwards.

    Are there any percentages available of how much IR and UV light is present at Tabby's Star? The results would then be compared to material compositions of the dust in the ring networks orbiting the four gas giants in our solar system to determine which dust ring network and material composition would most likely be oribting Tabby's Star and would cause the dips of Tabby's Star

    Radiation emanating from Tabby's Dust Ring.

    We know that planets such as Jupiter have a ring network that has dust particles along with much larger bunnies that form into small moons. Is there a way to determine how the radiation for each of the four gas giants in our own solar system "sounds" based on the radiation being emitted that would then be correlated to radiation type emitted based on each ring networks dust and material composition?

    Is there a way to determine how many volts are present during a non-transit and a transit based on the depth of the dips and the time that each dip takes place that could be then used to determine if a planet is passing through a dust ring around Tabby's Star and becoming negatively and positively charged?

    Does anyone study trees in depth?
    Being an avid maker of homemade aging barrels I came across something interesting that might relate to what is taking place with a star and its light curve.

    First off we know that all trees take in the available light of its sun to grow. The interaction between the tree seed and the frequency of light being taken in and the light curve of the sun itself would therefore most likely effect the end grain and pore creation of the wood itself.

    If you look at the link and then the 1. Look at the Endgrain section you can see something has taken place that has caused the two oaks to grow differently.

    On the left is Red Oak which has pores that resemble a planetary transit taking place. If you look at the White Oak to the right you can see that pores are more compact meaning that our sun was basically quiet when the White Oak seed first formed.

    Therefore based on the end grain of wood species we might be able to determine what is taking place in a solar system very far away as a the end grain of a tree species is much like the old plates used to capture light from a star far away as each seed of a wood species would have developed during a different phase of the sun during its formation but more importantly the formation of trees that take in carbon and then release oxygen.

    Wood species that take in more carbon while producing oils that could protect against harmful UV radiation might be able to be used to determine the phase of the Earth and the sun when more carbon was present where the trees took in the carbon and released a higher volume of oxygen in return.

    Trees are a good source of determining the phase that a sun is going through because each type of tree species and the wood end grain is a snapshot of the Sun's UV frequency and UV production type that nature then uses to recreate each seed from over and over again without any diminishing effects unlike photo copying the same black and white photo over and over again.

    If we can determine the age of a tree species based on how old the tree is, or basically when the seed of a tree species was first created, we can logically determine what the sun was going through as each phase of the sun would have emanated UV radiation that would have created each individual tree species separately. If the sun affected the development of tree seeds the same then there would only be on type of tree on Earth.

    Determining what phase of the sun created a particular tree seed would allow us to better determine what phase KIC 8462 was in seeing as how both our Sun and KIC 8462 are comparatively the same type of suns.

    With UV effecting the tree seed to cause it to grow a certain way the manner in which the tree seed develops and grows is based directly on the phase that the sun is going through or went through when the tree seed was first created.

    Without UV effecting the seed of trees to grow then the Earth would never have had trees.

    If we can find a growth pattern that would fit the peculiar light curve of KIC 8462 here on then we might be able to understand better what is causing the dips on KIC 8462 to take place as the same events that caused the tree seed to form under the same dips in light here on Earth would most likely be the cause of the dips on KIC 8462.

    An Unknown Element The Potential Cause For The Dips Of KIC 8462852

    I was reading through the blog, link below the post, and thought; everything that has been known to cause a star's light curve to dip has been thoroughly put through the ringer. Everything keeps on coming to a dead end that causes a loop back to take place of going through the data again and discussing the same issues over and over until we become green in the face.

    The last cog in the wheel is aliens, but as usual that idea is always put on the back burner.

    An unknown element

    Perhaps an unknown element is present within KIC 8462852 that is possibly the cause for the dips to occur in stars such Przybylski's and the EPIC star.

    The question is this; Is there any way to determine what type of unknown element could be possibly present in Tabby's Star by adjusting how known elements affect the light curve of our own sun?

    Someone has to have played around with element models at some point in their career and adjusted the structure of an element just to see what the element might do.

    It's either an unknown element or we have to move into the Alien Mega-structure forum of discussion.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  4. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 13, 2014
    More evidence that planets are orbiting KIC 8462852 instead of the round and round they go discussions that result in the same end conclusion of going around and around again to the same conclusion.

    "If the transit occurs while the star is moving in the same direction as the planet, the transit duration is longer, if in opposite directions, the transit duration is shorter. Matching the prediction from the phase of the binary completely secures the interpretation of the signal that an object is in a circumbinary orbit, as discussed extensively byKostov et al. (2013)for the cases of Kepler-47 and of KIC 4862625b (a.k.a. PH-1).

    Figure 15. The best-fit photodynamical model of KIC 4862625 predicting the center times for transits 2 through 9 to within rms of 3 hours. The model supports a primary star of 1.47 M☉ and 1.7 R☉ radius. All simulated planetary transits fit to within two data points of the measured values of both the durations and the midtransit times. Future events will allow us to further constrain the characteristics of the system. The orbital and physical parameters of the system are outlined in Table 4."

    "A Gas Giant Circumbinary Planet Transiting the F Star Primary of the Eclipsing Binary Star KIC 4862625 and the Independent Discovery and Characterization of the two transiting planets in the Kepler-47 System"

    The dips fit what a planetary transit would look like.

    The dips also fit what a planetary transit would like from the Backyards Nine planet hunting program as well.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  5. { Emilia }

    { Emilia } Madness Moderator

    Apr 17, 2011
    @Dryson, when you're quoting other people's work verbatim, use quote tags and assign those quotes properly.

    I can't believe I have to point this out in the science forum of all places. Consider this a friendly warning.
  6. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 13, 2014
    Quotes added my fair non-black maiden.
    Licks the screen chasing the ice cream cone.
    Its tastes like...t.v. Ice cream...yeah..he said lick.

    I was watching a video, rather listening to a video where Dr. Andrew Simian was speaking. He talked about how 95-99% of all stars will have at least one planet in orbit around them and at least 5 - 20% of those planets will be in the habitable zone.

    All stars are formed in the void where dust and other particles are part of the proto nebula, I will have to check on the actual term later on, where dust disturbed by the new sun clumps together and over time adds more and more gravity to the clump that forms into planets.

    Unless KIC 8462 is a rogue star that has left its original place of birth, which there is no proof of, based on Dr. Simian's probability mechanics that they will be at least one planet orbiting KIC 8462.

    Because none of the larger dips have been confirmed to have a period that would prove of planetary transit, then one of the smaller dips is most likely the planet in question that could be traveling around KIC very fast and stirring up the dust ring that is causing the varied dips to take place that do not have a consistent period of rotation.

    I know this to be true because the little kid on the tri-cycle going around KIC with the special helmet on stirring up dust told me so.
  7. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jan 14, 2004
    Bulent's Cafe

    Dr A Simian? I bet he's a naughty monkey.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  8. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 13, 2014
    [​IMG] Pluto Fog --->

    The Pluto "fog" could be coming from moons or large asteroids and even Asteroid moons like Chariklo orbiting the possible gas giants.

    Maybe I will drink some home aged whiskey tomorrow after work and look at this possible three planet transit of the KIC 8462852 sun. Exo planet hunting always better with home aged whiskey.

    Predicted 7.14.2107

    MAST Archive

    The link below is the MAST archive for KIC 8462852.

    The Mikulski Archive for Space Telescopes (MAST) is a NASA funded project to support and provide to the astronomical community a variety of astronomical data archives, with the primary focus on scientifically related data sets in the optical, ultraviolet, and near-infrared parts of the spectrum. MAST is located at the Space Telescope Science Institute (STScI). 8462852

    When you see the main page for KIC 8462 you will see the tab for the Home Page and the MAST:KIC462852 Observations.

    In the Filters Column you have numerous selections to choose from

    1. In the Mission Filter select Kepler.
    2. In the list view you will see results for the stars that have been studied in this region of space that shown on the AstroView to the right hand side.
    3.Click in the box for the first result and the box around KIC 8462852 is highlighted in the AstroViewer.
    4.Click the the icon next to the save disk icon in under the Actions column. This will open up a Timeseries Viewer that will allow you to look at the time line series for the dip that you have selected from the Legend on the right hand side of the viewer.
    5.Under Options select a Smooth Factor of 14 and Lines and Points from Style to generate the series. Select the KPLR_008462852 LC Q00 SAP box in the Legend.
    6.The left side of the graph is the amount that the stars light has dipped or increased over a certain time below which is at the bottom of the graph. In this case the first dip that you see was a decrease in the light curve of KIC 8462852 was 0.00031 or 2.30993 - 2.30962. The dip lasted ~ 12 hours and then spiked again a few days later by ~0.00062%
    7. Going back to the List View. You can see that a lot of the stars have not been identified yet but some like the three Red Giants have been.
    8. You can selected multiple targets of interest in the Edit Columns. You can also select a target of interest by clicking in the square where a pointer will appear relative to KIC 846285.
    9.Unselect all of the boxes except for number one

    Planetary Candidate
    1.Scroll down until you find target 73 which is KIC 8397947.
    2. Click the Timeseries Icon.
    3. Adjust the Smooth Factor to 14 and the Style to Lines and Points.
    4.Notice the dips in the light curve at days 7.438 and 22.315?
    5. To verify that this is a planetary transit multiply the lowest dip of the first light curve by 2. Why by 2? Because the distance from the first dip to the second dip is ~ 14 days, so that would be 7.438 x 2 = 14.876. Next add 14.876 with 7.438 = 22.314 which puts the second transit within the range of day 22.315.

    Possible Chariklo planetoids in system KIC 8462852

    I am currently putting together a rough estimate of the asteroid rings orbiting our gas giants to determine how much asteroid material would be needed to form a dust/asteroid ring around KIC 8462852. In the search I found asteroid Chariklo. Chariklo is only 250 km in diameter but has it owns asteroid ring around it. Therefore an object that is at least 250 km in diameter and is located between two gas giants would have the potential to pick up asteroids of its own as it passes between a planet like Saturn and Uranus.

    System KIC 8462 therefore could have a series of Chariklo like planetoids with their own ring networks but most likely only if two larger gas giants are present that the planetoid would pass between.

    I wonder if they get bored talking around in circles all of the time about the same dips reappearing? Yep that looks like another dip.

    But what could it be?

    You have been banned for suggesting ideas even though Jason Wright suggested a mega structure was orbiting KIC 8462852 and should have been drummed out of astronomy for making such a speculation.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  9. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 13, 2014
    Comparison of other FV type main sequence stars to Tabby's Star.

    I was searching the internet for stars similar to Tabby's Star and came across HD 33564 which has a gas giant, HD 33564 b orbiting the star. HD 33564 b has an eccentric orbit. HD 33564 b is also within the habitable zone and could possibly have moons orbiting it that might support life.

    HD 33564 and planet HD33564 b

    HD 33564 would be a good candidate to study the transit of HD 33564 b and then compare the transit to KIC 8462 because the star is a F6V star and Tabby's Star is a FV3 star.

    Other FV stars that have confirmed planets orbiting them are:

    HD 10647 is also a good candidate to study to determine if a ring network with a planet is in the rings orbiting KIC 8462 as well.
  10. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jan 14, 2004
    Bulent's Cafe
    Great although I'd advise against posting while drunk.
    No, he shouldn't. It's a possibility that is worthy of analysis (compare Freeman Dyson's speculations on detecting alien megastructures in the links below) although, if KIC 8462852 were such a structure given the sample size, it would imply that such structures (and very advanced alien civilisations) are quite ubiquitous in the Galaxy as we would be unlikely to stumble upon the only example by chance.

    Search for Artificial Stellar Sources of Infrared Radiation
    The Search for Extraterrestrial Technology
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  11. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 13, 2014
    The only explanation left for Tabby's Star

    Could Tabby's Star possibly be a new Eruptive F3V type of star. The dips of KIC 8462852 fit into the same parameters that R Coronae Borealis experiences. Deep magnitude dips in the light curve with unexplained brightening.
    Tabby's Star could also have planets orbiting it as well which would be another new discovery. An Eruptive F3V star with planets.
  12. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 13, 2014
    Alien life advanced enough to build a Dyson Sphere wouldn't be stupid enough to waste the resources on something so grand.

    They would however build nano sized bots able to collect elements from space that would convert those elements into usable forms of energy that could then be transferred to a collection array via microwaves that would then be converted into electrical power.

    The Comet Swarm Theory for KIC 8462.

    The annual Perseid meteor shower may be great, but it's got nothing on the brief sky show a comet gave Mars a few years back.

    Comet Siding Spring produced the most intense meteor shower in recorded history when the object flew by the Red Planet in October 2014, according to newly analyzed data collected at the time by NASA's Mars Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution (MAVEN) orbiter.

    MAVEN'S observations suggest that the Siding Spring shower boasted about 108,000 meteors per hour at its peak and lasted up to 3 hours, scientists led by Matteo Crismani, of the University of Colorado Boulder, reported today (Sept. 21) in a presentation at the European Planetary Science Congress 2017 (EPSC 2017) in Riga, Latvia.

    Comet Siding Spring, who names these comets anyway? Comet Siding Spring has been measured to be between 400 and 700 meters in diameter. During the recent the meteor shower up to 108,000 meteors were detected at its peaks transit that lasted three hours.

    Within a three hour time span, approximately 260,000 meteors impacted Mars.

    Let's say that each meteor was .5 meters in diameter x 260,000 = 130,000 meters in diameter of material that the comet lost during this transit.

    Comet Siding Spring probably took millions of years to travel from the Oort Cloud to Mars.

    The question is how much of dim in the light curve of our Sun would the debris from the comet create if a viewer had been present on Mars?

    If a single comet 400 to 700 meters in diameter is able to release 260,000 meteors within a three hour time span, could a swarm of 1,000 comets the same diameter produce the dips recorded at KIC 8462 by Kepler?
  13. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 12, 2006
    Your Mom
    Yeah... No. They pretty much confirmed the cometary hypothesis when Tabby Boyajian's predictions from their INITIAL paper -- predictions which were essentially based on the dimming being caused by a shattered comet or swarm of comets on an elliptical orbit -- came true. The data is now mostly consistent with the cometary hypothesis and very little else.

    You can stop now.
  14. Santaman

    Santaman Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 27, 2001
    LIES! ALL LIES! It is the Black Knight Satelitte! I tell you [!insert random agency] IS COVERING IT UP!

  15. Tetragrammaton Invictus

    Tetragrammaton Invictus I like the new Doctor Premium Member

    May 31, 2015
    About to steal the TARDIS
    I told you all before this was the family coming home to visit, only they stopped a while to look at a pretty star.
  16. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 28, 2001
    Starbase 31
  17. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 13, 2014
    [SIZE=6]'Alien Megastructure' Ruled Out for Some of Star's Weird Dimming
    "There's a prosaic explanation for at least some of the weirdness of "Tabby's star," it would appear.

    The bizarre long-term dimming of Tabby's star — also known as Boyajian's star, or, more formally, KIC 8462852 — is likely caused by dust, not a giant network of solar panels or any other "megastructure" built by advanced aliens, a new study suggests."


    "KIC 8462852, which lies about 1,500 light-years from Earth, has generated a great deal of intrigue and speculation since 2015. That year, a team led by astronomer Tabetha Boyajian (hence the star's nicknames) reported that KIC 8462852 had dimmed dramatically several times over the past half-decade or so, once by 22 percent.

    No orbiting planet could cause such big dips, so researchers began coming up with possible alternative explanations. These included swarms of comets or comet fragments, interstellar dust and the famous (but unlikely) alien-megastructure hypothesis.

    The mystery deepened after the initial Boyajian et al. study. For example, other research groups found that, in addition to the occasional short-term brightness dips, Tabby's star dimmed overall by about 20 percent between 1890 and 1989. In addition, a 2016 paper determined that its brightness decreased by 3 percent from 2009 to 2013."

    The dust might explain the dimming but what could be the cause of the 20 percent dim taking place? Could we be seeing for the time first time ever a planet being born from the dust around Tabby's Star?

    Is there any way to determine the axial velocity of the 20 percent dim to determine if the dust is revolving around a magnetic pole of alignment?

    What is the concentration of elements at the 20 percent dim compared to the rest of the dust ring? Are heavier elements being pulled to the 20 percent dim from the rest of dust ring?

    Very close analysis of the 20 percent dim would reveal if a planet is being made because the UV data would shift slightly as the dust revolved around forming magnetic poles.


    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  18. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jan 14, 2004
    Bulent's Cafe
  19. think

    think Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 2, 2008
    Outside Space -0
    Yep they are coming,.. be afraid be very afraid

    You know I thought this tread was about a telescope looking alien...mew
  20. Tetragrammaton Invictus

    Tetragrammaton Invictus I like the new Doctor Premium Member

    May 31, 2015
    About to steal the TARDIS

    Well I hope when they do come we have a huge party........
    think likes this.