The Menagerie I and II...

[HaventGotALife]

I had a Star Trek day watching The Motion Picture and Menagerie. It was fun, but there's something I don't understand. Why was Spock not punished for stealing the Enterprise? It really sucks that the Talos IV footage was shot like a television show and not like they were being monitored. I know, I know, it was the pilot. Still, it took me out of it several times. The show did this in Spock's quarters when he is monitoring what is happening in the Transporter room, too. Mount a security camera or something. Jeez, it zooms on Kirk and then widens to include Mendez just before commerical. That's so 60s.

Any other things to complain about with the Hugo Award-winning Episode?

 

[GSchnitzer]

"That's so 60s?" Really? What monitoring device in the 60s would zoom and pan and dolly? It doesn't seem like the 60s to me; it seems like pretty futuristic technology to be able to do that. (We saw that same zoom and pan and dolly on the little monitor again, too--in "Assignment: Earth.")

I had a Star Trek day watching The Motion Picture and Menagerie. It was fun, but there's something I don't understand. Why was Spock not punished for stealing the Enterprise? It really sucks that the Talos IV footage was shot like a television show and not like they were being monitored. I know, I know, it was the pilot. Still, it took me out of it several times. The show did this in Spock's quarters when he is monitoring what is happening in the Transporter room, too. Mount a security camera or something. Jeez, it zooms on Kirk and then widens to include Mendez just before commerical. That's so 60s.

Any other things to complain about with the Hugo Award-winning Episode?

 

[Mysterion]

Whenever you see some in The Menagerie that doesn't make sense: The Talosians did it. Problem solved.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The "envelope" story was written in rather a hurry. A lot of it doesn't make logical sense.

 

[Dukhat]

Any other things to complain about with the Hugo Award-winning Episode?

Yeah, I have a complaint. For some reason I can only stream the first part on Netflix. There's no option to see the second part

 

[Captain Robert April]

The Keeper has decided that you're not ready to see the rest of it yet.

 

[Harvey]

The thing that always annoys me is the commercial break where the Talosian transmissions cease leading Spock to be convicted for no reason except to ramp up the tension for the next 3-5 minutes of advertisements. When the episode returns Spock's conviction is almost immediately forgotten and the transmissions resume.

I'd like to read the envelope that John D.F. Black wrote before Roddenberry threw it out sometime.

 

[HaventGotALife]

The thing that always annoys me is the commercial break where the Talosian transmissions cease leading Spock to be convicted for no reason except to ramp up the tension for the next 3-5 minutes of advertisements. When the episode returns Spock's conviction is almost immediately forgotten and the transmissions resume.

I'd like to read the envelope that John D.F. Black wrote before Roddenberry threw it out sometime.

The same thing happens between part 1 and 2 when Kirk is essentially taken down with Spock in this fiasco.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

That's so 60s.

Gee, I wonder why...













































COS IT'S MADE IN THE 60S!!!!!!! DUUURRR!!

 

[T'Girl]

Why was Spock not punished for stealing the Enterprise?

Who says he wasn't? It seems like it took Spock an unusally long time to make captain. Starfleet was bending over backwards to give Picard's first officer his first captaincy. Not all punishment in the (military) services are in the form of incarceration. The incident was probably a black mark on Spock's record.

The Keeper has decided that you're not ready to see the rest of it yet.

They controlled the horizontal, they controlled the vertical.

 

[Botany Bay]

I'd like to read the envelope that John D.F. Black wrote before Roddenberry threw it out sometime.

So would I! Do you have any more details?

 

[Harvey]

Just that Black wrote the original script for the "envelope," and that Roddenberry completely re-wrote him. I've seen it suggested in some quarters that Roddenberry stole Black's material, and in others that Roddenberry threw out everything and started from scratch. Without reading the script, it's impossible to know. All we do know is that Black filed a grievance with the WGA, and that it was dismissed.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

Why was Spock not punished for stealing the Enterprise?

Well, his treasonous acts may have been mitigated by the fact that he found a way to ensure that Pike (by this point a very well-respected top ranking officer who is a hero many times over--respected so much that no one at Starfleet had the "heart to take him off the active-duty roster") could live out his life unfettered by his horrible condition (which was the result of one of his heroic acts).

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

Why was Spock not punished for stealing the Enterprise?

Who says he wasn't? It seems like it took Spock an unusally long time to make captain. Not all punishment in the (military) services are in the form of incarceration. The incident was probably a black mark on Spock's record.

Very true! In fact, that very fact is brought up by the Romulan Commander in The Enterprise Incident.

 

[EnsignHarper]

The 'joke' of saying the Keeper was controlling everything - really isn't. Here's why:

1. In the teaser of Pt 1, Spock tells the injured Pike: "I have no choice!" I think that is a pretty good admission that the Talosians were manipulating everything from the start.

2. Somewhere the Keeper/Talosians managed to replace the real Mendez with the illusionary one that accompanies Kirk on the shuttle, then on the Enterprise - not mention make it possible for Scott to lock onto it and beam it aboard the Enterprise. They probably made a point of having the real Mendez watching the 'testimony' ALONE, with no witnesses.

In the Cage, the point is pretty well made that the Talosians power is well....POWERFUL...so any 'illogic' CAN be explained as being done by the Talosians - the ULTIMATE deus ex machina....

Now as far as Spock not being 'punished' is concerned - the transmission from the real Mendez at the end makes it pretty clear, that its because of Pike's place in the history of space exploration - by Kirk's times, there must be a pretty large chunk of Starfleet that owes Pike BIG time in various ways - especially perhaps, Mendez? Remember that Spock repeatedly said he never aspired to be Captain - even in the Mirror Universe! The ONLY way he ever accepted a Captaincy, was as a Captain of a cadet training ship. So not charging Spock can pretty well be tolerated as an act of 'kindness'

 

[Botany Bay]

Just that Black wrote the original script for the "envelope," and that Roddenberry completely re-wrote him. I've seen it suggested in some quarters that Roddenberry stole Black's material, and in others that Roddenberry threw out everything and started from scratch. Without reading the script, it's impossible to know. All we do know is that Black filed a grievance with the WGA, and that it was dismissed.

Interesting. At this point, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn that the "envelope" (usually considered one of Roddenberry's best and most important contributions) wasn't his at all.

Anyway, thanks for the info, I hope the Black version surfaces one day

 

[HaventGotALife]

That's so 60s.

Gee, I wonder why...

COS IT'S MADE IN THE 60S!!!!!!! DUUURRR!!

Well, most of Trek is timeless.

 

[Ssosmcin]

"That's so 60s?" Really? What monitoring device in the 60s would zoom and pan and dolly? It doesn't seem like the 60s to me; it seems like pretty futuristic technology to be able to do that. (We saw that same zoom and pan and dolly on the little monitor again, too--in "Assignment: Earth."

Yeah, but it was very "60's" to do that exactly on cue, even though that stuff kept happening afterward. It's as if the director filmed that scene as the matser shot in transporter room and it was decided after the fact to pop it in the viewscreen. Having a camera able to zoom in and stuff is all well and good, but for it to happen at just the right dramatic moments is what can be a distraction. Trek is far from the only show to do this. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea did it all the time. Sometimes they'd switch angles and zoom in while showing us the point of view through binoculars.

 

[Elder Knight]

...
Now as far as Spock not being 'punished' is concerned - the transmission from the real Mendez at the end makes it pretty clear, that its because of Pike's place in the history of space exploration - by Kirk's times, there must be a pretty large chunk of Starfleet that owes Pike BIG time in various ways - especially perhaps, Mendez? Remember that Spock repeatedly said he never aspired to be Captain - even in the Mirror Universe! The ONLY way he ever accepted a Captaincy, was as a Captain of a cadet training ship. So not charging Spock can pretty well be tolerated as an act of 'kindness'

Maybe Pike himself still had the authority (remember, his commission was still active) to exonerate Spock completely.

 

[GSchnitzer]

Or, sometimes it's the other way around, of course: Uhura or Sulu delivering their important information from the bridge to the Captain down in the briefing room, looking directly into the camera--but the scene isn't being used a shot matted into the monitor screen; it's just a shot of Uhura or Sulu talking directly into the camera.

"That's so 60s?" Really? What monitoring device in the 60s would zoom and pan and dolly? It doesn't seem like the 60s to me; it seems like pretty futuristic technology to be able to do that. (We saw that same zoom and pan and dolly on the little monitor again, too--in "Assignment: Earth."

Yeah, but it was very "60's" to do that exactly on cue, even though that stuff kept happening afterward. It's as if the director filmed that scene as the matser shot in transporter room and it was decided after the fact to pop it in the viewscreen. Having a camera able to zoom in and stuff is all well and good, but for it to happen at just the right dramatic moments is what can be a distraction. Trek is far from the only show to do this. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea did it all the time. Sometimes they'd switch angles and zoom in while showing us the point of view through binoculars.