Spoilers The Marvels grade and discussion

[Mr. Adventure]

I don't know if there was any single silver bullet bringing this one down, I'm sure it came down to a number of things coming together. My two cents is these movies have to look like a winner from the get-go, lackadaisical marketing or a movie that looks just serviceable isn't going to cut it.

The mismarketing made people think they had to see Ms Marvel and WandaVision and Secret Invasion to understand the movie, and the smear campaign against Secret Invasion turned folks off that idea.

How exactly was that done? I don't remember anything suggesting you had to watch the shows with the other characters (just knowing there were shows would seem to imply some familiarity).

 

[Guy Gardener]

I don't know if there was any single silver bullet bringing this one down, I'm sure it came down to a number of things coming together. My two cents is these movies have to look like a winner from the get-go, lackadaisical marketing or a movie that looks just serviceable isn't going to cut it.


How exactly was that done? I don't remember anything suggesting you had to watch the shows with the other characters (just knowing there were shows would seem to imply some familiarity).

I told my (17 year old) nephew to watch Ms. Marvel before we saw the Marvels.

He told me to go $$ck myself, and that he wasn't coming.

The kid is a gamer, and doesn't like TV or movies, which is how his father raised him and how all his brothers and sisters think and believe accordingly.

Their living room died in 2018, as soon as all 4 children had their own laptops, and they never left their bedrooms, but I suppose their computers were networked and they were im-ing as a loving family constantly.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^ But in that case you were the one mismarketing it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

^ But in that case you were the one mismarketing it.

This was the offer...

"Do you want to see a free movie and eat a free meal, and you don't have to put out?"

Nothing I said after that should have mattered.

2 weeks later, we saw "Five Nights at Freddy's" a movie, based on a video game, which I thought was awful.

 

[Set Harth]

yikes

 

[Anwar]

How exactly was that done? I don't remember anything suggesting you had to watch the shows with the other characters (just knowing there were shows would seem to imply some familiarity).

Social Media Marketing, kept mentioning those shows and how The Marvels was a sequel to them.

I do find the fan hypocrisy a little amusing, they keep saying "The shows and movies should be more connected" but when it happens they just complain "Well I don't want to watch shows to understand things!"

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

I do find the fan hypocrisy a little amusing, they keep saying "The shows and movies should be more connected" but when it happens they just complain "Well I don't want to watch shows to understand things!"

Wouldn't the "fans" be watching the shows though? So it probably wouldn't be the fans complaining about the homework, but the more casual viewers.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Social Media Marketing, kept mentioning those shows and how The Marvels was a sequel to them.

Ah, thanks, yeah, I couldn't speak to that either way.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ah, thanks, yeah, I couldn't speak to that either way.

Ms. Marvel Season 1, feels like 1960s Spider-Man.

A dumb kid constantly falling off a tightrope.

 

[eschaton]

The ironic thing about all of this though is that The Marvels was the first test case of the MCU having a cinematic premier for characters launched in Disney+ TV shows - and it went over like a lead balloon.

One could make the argument that Multiverse of Madness isn't really understandable without WandaVision, but the scripts were in no way coordinated between the two shows, and Wanda's characterization was different (much shallower) so I don't think it counts as much.

Besides that - maybe Allegra d'Fontaine as a pointless cameo in Wakanda Forever? I don't think her scenes worked, but they were kinda a sideshow to the rest of the movie.

Regardless, it does suggest that cinematic adaptations of Disney+ MCU characters could be dicey in the future.

 

[Anwar]

The ironic thing about all of this though is that The Marvels was the first test case of the MCU having a cinematic premier for characters launched in Disney+ TV shows - and it went over like a lead balloon.

One could make the argument that Multiverse of Madness isn't really understandable without WandaVision, but the scripts were in no way coordinated between the two shows, and Wanda's characterization was different (much shallower) so I don't think it counts as much.

Besides that - maybe Allegra d'Fontaine as a pointless cameo in Wakanda Forever? I don't think her scenes worked, but they were kinda a sideshow to the rest of the movie.

Regardless, it does suggest that cinematic adaptations of Disney+ MCU characters could be dicey in the future.

Well, admittedly Valentina's scenes did serve a purpose. She was there to show the Wakandans were right to be paranoid about others wanting their resources and how they want to stripmine and destroy Wakanda.

 

[bdub76]

The ironic thing about all of this though is that The Marvels was the first test case of the MCU having a cinematic premier for characters launched in Disney+ TV shows - and it went over like a lead balloon.

One could make the argument that Multiverse of Madness isn't really understandable without WandaVision, but the scripts were in no way coordinated between the two shows, and Wanda's characterization was different (much shallower) so I don't think it counts as much.

Besides that - maybe Allegra d'Fontaine as a pointless cameo in Wakanda Forever? I don't think her scenes worked, but they were kinda a sideshow to the rest of the movie.

Regardless, it does suggest that cinematic adaptations of Disney+ MCU characters could be dicey in the future.

The D+ shows are mostly the secondary characters in the movies, not the headliners. Hawkeye stands out as one of the better series.

What’s the draw to see these new films? When I read comics as a kid, these weren’t strong selling books back then. And they are still not strong sellers now.

 

[Set Harth]

One could make the argument that Multiverse of Madness isn't really understandable without WandaVision, but the scripts were in no way coordinated between the two shows

Why do you assume that?

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

What’s the draw to see these new films? When I read comics as a kid, these weren’t strong selling books back then. And they are still not strong sellers now.

Based on numbers or based on what you purchased?

Looking around at some lists, the Disney+ characters like Moon Knight, She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel sell quite well for Marvel. Moon Knight hovering around 25 for all books sold in North America. He does generally better than Iron Man, Thor, Green Lantern... these aren't unknown characters.

I mean... seven reprints for Ms. Marvel's first comic? And her trade was #1 for a good long while. That's not peanuts.

 

[bdub76]

Based on numbers or based on what you purchased?

Looking around at some lists, the Disney+ characters like Moon Knight, She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel sell quite well for Marvel. Moon Knight hovering around 25 for all books sold in North America. He does generally better than Iron Man, Thor, Green Lantern... these aren't unknown characters.

I mean... seven reprints for Ms. Marvel's first comic? And her trade was #1 for a good long while. That's not peanuts.

Here’s what’s selling:

https://www.comicbookrevolution.com/october-2023-single-issue-comic-book-sales-rankings/#top-10

 

[Guy Gardener]

Here’s what’s selling:

https://www.comicbookrevolution.com/october-2023-single-issue-comic-book-sales-rankings/#top-10

Until very recently Marvel did not own the film rights to The Fantastic Four, Spider-Man and the X-Men, since the 1980s.

 

[eschaton]

Why do you assume that?

Because it's been openly admitted. Elizabeth Olsen herself has said it. Supposedly. Marvel was so worried about script leaks they wouldn't share the story with the MOM scriptwriters.

 

[Set Harth]

Judging from the results, there had to have been some level of coordination, however limited.

 

[Gaith]

yikes

I believe Guy's Australian? They may not have quite the same connotation of "put out" in the Land Down Under...

I do find the fan hypocrisy a little amusing, they keep saying "The shows and movies should be more connected" but when it happens they just complain "Well I don't want to watch shows to understand things!"

I heard someone at the bus stop yesterday remark that people who eat in restaurants are hypocrites, because they keep asking for vegetarian meals, but they also keep asking for meals containing dead animals. I pointed out to him that "people who eat in restaurants" is a large category of people, and even commonly held preferences may not be held by the same individuals. Boy, did he feel silly once he realized how logical and self-evident that was!

The ironic thing about all of this though is that The Marvels was the first test case of the MCU having a cinematic premier for characters launched in Disney+ TV shows - and it went over like a lead balloon.

Not sure that's any more ironic than ra-ai-in on your wedding day, but I do think one solid takeaway here is to not introduce movie-headlining characters in D+ shows, unless said shows are proven big hits with widespread cultural awareness, like Mando and Grogu. General audiences almost certainly didn't know (or care) that De Fontaine appeared in a D+ show prior to having a minor role in Wakanda Forever, but they may well have been dissuaded from The Marvels based on knowing that two of the three leads are from D+ shows.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Regardless, it does suggest that cinematic adaptations of Disney+ MCU characters could be dicey in the future.

Most are not so fascinating to even warrant a move to the big screen--certainly not as a solo project not joined at the hip with the other films. Captain America 4 (despite the announcement of reshoots--and we do not know what part of the plot that centers on) is the only D+-related film I am eager to see. Then again, the main character was introduced and developed in the Cap movies, so already that's a significant advantage.